Resisting dispel magic effects?

[green slime]

So, using Overchannel and Talented feats, an 8th level Psion can manifest dispel psionics at tenth Manifester level, d20+10, taking no damage, and can then further increase the bonus by +10 with a further 5 power points. d20+20... seems kind of begging for a house rule, IMO.

 

[NewJeffCT]

So, using Overchannel and Talented feats, an 8th level Psion can manifest dispel psionics at tenth Manifester level, d20+10, taking no damage, and can then further increase the bonus by +10 with a further 5 power points. d20+20... seems kind of begging for a house rule, IMO.

I probably should cap it as his level max of +11 for now, then +12 when he gets to next level. it makes it too powerful otherwise.

 

[Starbuck_II]

So, using Overchannel and Talented feats, an 8th level Psion can manifest dispel psionics at tenth Manifester level, d20+10, taking no damage, and can then further increase the bonus by +10 with a further 5 power points. d20+20... seems kind of begging for a house rule, IMO.

True, but you use up your Psionic Focus.
Unless the Psion also has Mediation: he will likely not get that Focus back in battle (full roumd action, yuck).

 

[green slime]

True, but you use up your Psionic Focus.
Unless the Psion also has Mediation: he will likely not get that Focus back in battle (full roumd action, yuck).

Psionic Meditation is pretty much a foregone conclusion for a psion: Especially so if they want to utilize metapsionic feats as well.

 

[s-dub]

A 5th level Psion can't use more than 5 power points: he can't augment.

Now an 10th level Psion has 5 pp over the minimum cost of 5. He can augment by 5. Don't forget the manifesting cap (most important rule in XPH).

A better way to word your exaggeration to make it more possible (how does a 5th level psion get +10 to his manifester so he manifest as 15th level?):

A 8th level Psion can Dispel as a 14th level manifester. He uses 5 pp to use Dispel Psionics and can afford to augment by 3. Add +6.
8+6=14th dispelling check.

I forgot about that because I'm not very familiar with psionics.

 

[insanogeddon]

How is it an "abuse" if characters actually use their spells to good effect? If an cleric wishes to blow most of his spells buffing someone for one combat, I don't think he should automatically get shot down for it. Heck, most of those spells have a minute per level duration. But then, I, unlike some DM's, don't hate my players...

And as for ongoing effects supposed to come from magic items and not spells, I think that is a stupid statement. If the the only buffs a character is supposed to have only comes from magic items, then why provide those spells in the first place? Maybe I'm weird, but I always thought that the purpose of magic items was to give the players awesome new abilities and advantages, not simply make up for inherit weaknesses they might have.

Its not an abuse at all for casters to use spells as they see fit.

That Said

It IS an abuse to disallow opponets who presumable have minds and want to live to react accordingly.

 

[Jebb_X]

Keep the following in mind, using your 11th level psion:

He can use 11 power points in a single manifestation (barring the use of over-channel et al).

If he manifests dispel psionics he expends 5 power points (the same as a 3rd level spell), and can dispel at 1d20+10.

Should he chose to augment the power, for each power point he expends he gains a +2 to his dispel check. Assuming the psion manifests the power fully augmented, he will expend 10 power points for a total of 1d20+20.

This is the equivelant of the psion manifesting a 5th level spell (with an extra power point left out in the dark). This does, effectively grant the psion a greater dispel magic at a lower level than, for example, a wizard, but then the two classes are not similar (the wizard gains automatic scaling in damage spells, whereas the psion must pay for it). Considering that a base psion of 11th level has about 110 power points (excluding adjustments for attribute bonuses), that quite the spend for a single power.

All in all, it is very well balanced, and not in need of a house rule at all. If the psion wants to drop a fully augmented dispel psionics each and every round, he'll chew through his power points rapidly. But that is his perogative. Remember, however, that, like most rules in the 3rd edition, the power levels are based on four encounters of roughly EL <party level> per day.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Should he chose to augment the power, for each power point he expends he gains a +2 to his dispel check. Assuming the psion manifests the power fully augmented, he will expend 10 power points for a total of 1d20+20.

This is the equivelant of the psion manifesting a 5th level spell (with an extra power point left out in the dark). This does, effectively grant the psion a greater dispel magic at a lower level than, for example, a wizard, but then the two classes are not similar (the wizard gains automatic scaling in damage spells, whereas the psion must pay for it). Considering that a base psion of 11th level has about 110 power points (excluding adjustments for attribute bonuses), that quite the spend for a single power.

All in all, it is very well balanced, and not in need of a house rule at all. If the psion wants to drop a fully augmented dispel psionics each and every round, he'll chew through his power points rapidly. But that is his perogative. Remember, however, that, like most rules in the 3rd edition, the power levels are based on four encounters of roughly EL <party level> per day.

An 11th or 12th level wizard or cleric casting Dispel Magic, Greater would only get a +11 or +12 to their check. The move from regular level 3 Dispel Magic to Greater Dispel only allows them to exceed the +10 cap from regular Dispel Magic, it does not allow them to exceed their level. The only way a wizard or cleric could hope to equal a level 10 psion is to be level 20, or to burn a feat allowing the wizard or cleric to cast at a higher level.

And, a level 11 psion has a base of 106 power points, but most players will have bonus stats, and once they get to level 8, they will have improved their main stat by +2 from a likely already high total... so, a 20 in their main stat would not be unusual, granting them another 27 power points at level 11.

And, while psions have to pay extra power points to scale their damage up, it is always in a level equivalent amount - so, taking energy missile for 3 points at 3d6 of damage, you can spend 2 more power points to get 5d6 of damage and increase the save DC by 2 in the process as well. Then, you can spend your full 11 points total to get 11d6 of damage and also increase the save DC by 8, effectively making it the equivalent of saving vs a 10th level spell (2nd level power save DC of 12, +8 for the extra points). A level 11 wizard casting a level 6 spell for 11d6 of damage would be working with a base save DC of 16 instead of 20. Heck, the psion could be greedy and use electricity and get another +2 to the save DC, or use fire for 11d6+11 damage

 

[Jebb_X]

An 11th or 12th level wizard or cleric casting Dispel Magic, Greater would only get a +11 or +12 to their check. The move from regular level 3 Dispel Magic to Greater Dispel only allows them to exceed the +10 cap from regular Dispel Magic, it does not allow them to exceed their level. The only way a wizard or cleric could hope to equal a level 10 psion is to be level 20, or to burn a feat allowing the wizard or cleric to cast at a higher level.

Fundamentally that is correct, however, it is recuperated by the wizard / sorcerer in their automatic scaling of their spells. Keep in mind that the psion is having to pay extra power points to obtain this enhanced effect.

The example given previously, with the +20, would require, in this case the 11th level psion to spend 20 power points to remove the buffs (assuming all rolls were succesful). This would roughly be a consumption of 20% of their psionic resources in two rounds.

Whereas the wizard would be able to perform the same duties (admittedly with a lower chance of success), with the use of far less resources.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Fundamentally that is correct, however, it is recuperated by the wizard / sorcerer in their automatic scaling of their spells. Keep in mind that the psion is having to pay extra power points to obtain this enhanced effect.

The example given previously, with the +20, would require, in this case the 11th level psion to spend 20 power points to remove the buffs (assuming all rolls were succesful). This would roughly be a consumption of 20% of their psionic resources in two rounds.

Whereas the wizard would be able to perform the same duties (admittedly with a lower chance of success), with the use of far less resources.

No, a level 10 psion would spend the initial 5 points to get the +10. Then, the psion would need to spend only another 5 points to get the +20. So, total points spent is 10, or lonly about 10% of their total minimum power points.