Respect to Mr. Gygax and Mr. Arneson

photonenlaerm

First Post
Hello everybody,

this is my first post on this board, and my english is not the best, maybe.

I just want to give my to cents to the discussion going on on this board, concerning Mr. Gary Gygax. Thinking about this topic, the tought came up to me, that without Mr. Gygax and Mr. Arneson, this board and the game we all love as our hobby - Dungeons & Dragons - simply wouldn't exist! So, please, show them both the respect they earn for their invention.

For inventing D&D, I respectfully bow before them.

Carsten from Germany
 
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BrooklynKnight said:
welcome to enworld photo, enjoy your stay..

Though, um, i dont think ya haveto bow.

Dave and Gary are people too :-p

You bet they're people too. They make car payments like the rest of us. They put on their pants one leg at a time like the rest of us. They probably even pick their noses while driving and fart like the rest of us.

Do not bow. Just give them a handshake for a job well done and maybe ask them to sign one of their rulebooks.

You see, the post that started this thread is the kind of silly extreme of the type of gamers who worship the ground that Gygax (and sometimes Arneson) walk on. Maybe I've been too steeped in republican politics (note: that's the political theory of republics and not Republican party politics) to really accept this kind of deference to anyone easily. Give them appropriate respect, sure, but that generally comes far short of bowing down before them. That kind of short head-nod that you give someone when you accidentally make eye contact with them while standing at a urinal in the men's room will suffice (thanks to stand-up comedian Fred Klett for the idea for that one... gotta give credit where credit is due).
 

Only nodding ...

Gentlemen,

please don't emphasize on my "bowing" ....

The point is, to give them the honest respect they deserve. Nothing more. Without them, we coudn't even have this discussion ... Without them, there would be no Dungeons & Dragons! No "AC", no "HD", nothing ....

And, I'm not a fan of one particular person's work, but of D&D. Get it!
 
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billd91 said:
Do not bow. Just give them a handshake for a job well done and maybe ask them to sign one of their rulebooks.

You see, the post that started this thread is the kind of silly extreme of the type of gamers who worship the ground that Gygax (and sometimes Arneson) walk on.

You see, this post I'm responding to is the type of anal-retentive, obnoxiously nit-picky, and uncalled for exageration that gives geek-gamers a bad name. The first poster in this thread already begged understanding for his lack of mastery of English... but whoosh, zoomed right on by that part and into the lambasting.

Bowing in respect is not a "kind of silly extreme". Different strokes for different folks. We don't need to cultural imperialists of ways of "respect-showing".


Regards,
Eric Anondson
 

photonenlaerm said:
The point is, to give them the honest respect, they deserve. Nothing more.
Grammatical note: you shouldn't have a comma after "respect" above. The momentum of your sentance doesn't allow for a pause there. (The first comma, after "The point is", is OK as it's a seperate phrase. You could also do without the comma if you wish.)

As to the content of your post: Gary and Dave got more than their fair share of respect in the form of dollars and historical accalaim by roleplayers. OTOH, Mr. Gygax's actions since he left TSR nearly twenty years ago are suffiicent to give some cause to disrespect him, his original contribution to the hobby notwithstanding.

In fact, his recent comments about the OGL betray a certain lack of understanding and arrogance the hobby that has arisen from his work so many years ago. My personal preference is that Gary not be shown any exceptional reverence--Zeb Cook, Monte Cook, John Tweet, Steve Weick, Skip Williams, and Ryan Dancy all deserve just as much reverance as Gary, if not more.
 


Hey, if a guy honors someone so much that he wants to express it by publicly bowing to that person, just let him !

This world has become so cynical. What happened to good old spontaneous glee...
 

Planesdragon said:
OTOH, Mr. Gygax's actions since he left TSR nearly twenty years ago are suffiicent to give some cause to disrespect him, his original contribution to the hobby notwithstanding.

What the heck are you talking about? What exactly has Gary done since being forced out of TSR that deserves condemnation, let alone disrespect? The man has attempted to make a living writing for a hobby he enjoys and played a major part in creating while systematically being trashed and sabotaged by people he worked with and trusted. Despite that, he's remained dedicated to the RPG hobby and his gaming fans and kept a positive attitude about his work. Gary deserves the utmost respect for his actions post-TSR.

Planesdragon said:
In fact, his recent comments about the OGL betray a certain lack of understanding and arrogance the hobby that has arisen from his work so many years ago.

So, because you disagree with Gary's opinion, that proves he doesn't understand the hobby? Are you sure it's Gary who's arrogant?
 
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Planesdragon said:
As to the content of your post: Gary and Dave got more than their fair share of respect in the form of dollars and historical accalaim by roleplayers. OTOH, Mr. Gygax's actions since he left TSR nearly twenty years ago are suffiicent to give some cause to disrespect him, his original contribution to the hobby notwithstanding.

In fact, his recent comments about the OGL betray a certain lack of understanding and arrogance the hobby that has arisen from his work so many years ago. My personal preference is that Gary not be shown any exceptional reverence--Zeb Cook, Monte Cook, John Tweet, Steve Weick, Skip Williams, and Ryan Dancy all deserve just as much reverance as Gary, if not more.

Well, when I see bowing, I don't think of gods more than think of kings. And in my opinion, they are the kings of D&D. Why? First, without their development of the game, the others would not have the basis for their accomplishments. Yes, I have heard of the argument, "Others were development RPG games so the industry would have exploded anyways." However, at best, this is still just speculation. Others may have developed a fantasy RPG, but there's no guarantee that it would have been successful as D&D. Furthermore, you don't have to speculate on the accomplishments of Arneson and Gygax - they actually did it. There's plenty of thinker in the world and very few doers.

Second, let's look at three of the people in list above - John Tweet, Monte Cook, and Skip Williams. Easily, their biggest accomplishment was the development of the 3rd edition core books. Now, review the 3rd edition core rule books versus the 1st edition AD&D core rule books. Just running to what comes to me right now, for the PHB the attribute development, most hit dice, base damage for weapons, base races, most classes (all except sorcerer), and spells are pretty much the same as 1st edition AD&D. For saving throws turning, and armor class, they're the same concept with a new set of rules. For monsters, they're pretty much the same monsters from the 1st edition AD&D Monster Manual with many of the special qualities being the same.

Now let's look at what Arneson and Gygax had to fall back on - basic mythology and fantasy literature. They basically made the framework for the gaming system which we have today. Tweet, Cook, and Williams had this framework to base their creations upon which is a sizeable advantage, and in fact their book are still the works of Arneson and Gygax due o the framework involved in the books. As for module andcampaign settings, they are easily the pioneers with everyone providing theirs after these trailblazers.

They are not gods, but they are kings in this industry. They are kings indeed.
 

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