Respect to Mr. Gygax and Mr. Arneson

[Lurch]

I'm very neutral about his opinions; but I certainly find it very interesting how heated some people can get about this debate.

Chalk it up to human nature; some folks like to put others on pedestals & keep them there, while others feel sacred cows make the best hamburgers.

Opinions vary -- which is why we have horse races.

 

[Pielorinho]

Hypersmurf beat me to it .

Way I see it, Lorraine Freakin' Williams is deserving of respect, no matter how much I disagree with her. Especially if she signed on as a member of this board, nobody would have any business speaking insultingly of her.

I've disagreed with Mr. Gygax's views on things more than once, sure. Same with Mr. Arneson. That doesn't mean I can't respect him; that doesn't mean y'all can't give him the respect he's due.

Props for a kindhearted OP!
Daniel

 

[Desdichado]

What Gary and Co. did in creating D&D was great. Thanks to all. They deserve a hearty thank you. They are certainly not "kings" or "gods" though. What a ridiculous thing to say!

Of course they deserve respect. Everyone deserves respect. They don't deserve "respect" (by which is often meant, they can never be disagreed with) for creating D&D though; they deserve true respect because they are human beings. There's no reason to nip at their flanks like ravening wolves about things you may disagree with, and there's no reason to jump down anyone's throat who does disagree with them.

There's no reason to make unfounded claims that Gary Gygax nearly killed D&D several years after establishing it either. And frankly, there's really no reason to make statements to the effect of "I think Gary Gygax is arrogant." While that's fine to hold that opinion, stating it on the messageboard is very poor form, and could be construed as a personal attack against the man.

Treat Gary with respect, the same way you should treat anyone else. If a thread pops up talking about his latest statement (the OGL being a good example) debate the merits of what he says and do not get involved in tangential and pointless discussion of whether or not Gary is arrogant, whether or not he nearly killed D&D, whether or not we should bow to him, whether or not we would even have RPGs at all without him; that's all beside the point.

At least that's my take on it. It's both amusing and yet exasperating to see these constant "Gary Wars" threads that pop up.

 

[Wombat]

Gary Gygax

Dave Arneson

They're these guys, y'know?

Are they gods or saints? Nope. Are they mindless cretins? Far, far from.

All of us who enjoy this hobby owe them a debt of gratitude in the same way that all aviators owe something to the Wright Brothers -- sure there may be contentions about them and several other people were working on something similar at the time, but THEY DID IT.

Because of the creation and the success of D&D (bless my Three Little Books!), we now have rpgs in general. Certainly personal tastes enter into what game you may or may not enjoy at the moment and certainly you can question some of their business practices, but that is utterly beside the point. What has happened to the industry since is also beyond the scope of this thread.

Because they created D&D, we have rpgs.

Simple as that.

For that, we owe them our collective thanks.

 

[Dogbrain]

I guess this has turned into "We hate Gary and Dave" thread. Funny how one thing leads to another.

There is a difference between hating and refusing to fawn.

 

[Virate]

Translatioon: Here is a bunch of lies and slander I'm gonna post.

By it's own definition, you can't post slander.
But I am not here to educate you.

If you can't figure out why Gygax nearly spelled the end for DnD then too bad. Another poster already hit the nail on the head and I am not about to steal his fire. I am here to post my thoughts on the matter, not to argue with you. If you want to continue your hero worship for the man, go right ahead.

But if he is the creative genius everyone says he is...why are you posting this here instead of the Lejendary Adventures site?

 

[Trainz]

If you can't figure out why Gygax nearly spelled the end for DnD then too bad. Another poster already hit the nail on the head and I am not about to steal his fire. I am here to post my thoughts on the matter, not to argue with you.

Except that this thread was created by the original poster to say thanks to Gary about D&D, NOT so that you can post some negative comments about him.

It's like someone going to someone's birthday party to tell him he sucks. That someone would look dumb, wouldn't he ?

If you absolutely HAVE to criticise Gygax, there's PLENTY of other threads where it's open to such an exercise.

For the record, I'm not a Gygax fanboy, I just despise the general usenet aura ENworld has contracted in the past weeks.

 

[Ourph]

If you can't figure out why Gygax nearly spelled the end for DnD then too bad. Another poster already hit the nail on the head and I am not about to steal his fire.

Could you at least post a link then, or quote what he said? I've read the whole thread from beginning to end. I've seen several people make unfounded accusations about how Gary Gygax nearly destroyed D&D, but I've yet to have someone spell out exactly what actions he took that deserve that characterization. When Gary was forced from TSR by Lorraine Williams and the Blumes in the mid-80's D&D had millions of fans (more than it has had since that time, including the present), TSR had several other very popular game lines, the company was strong, making money and had at most a handful of serious competitors in the RPG market. The company and the game didn't tank until nearly a decade after Gary Gygax no longer had anything whatsoever to do with it.

So please, won't somebody explain to me exactly what Gary Gygax did that almost destroyed D&D?

 

[Dogbrain]

Gygax did not nearly destroy D&D. However, he is extremely reactionary and more in love with his own illusion of genius than even most gamers I've met. His "solution" to falling sales for the 2d edition of AD&D was totally retrogressive--a word-for-word re-release of the first edition, not even a "clean start" 2d edition from the first.

 

[Ottergame]

If Arneson and Gygax are gods of gaming, they are dead gods. Arneson leaving TSR in the late 70's and Gygax letting TSR out of his control have made them irrelevant to the RPG sceen today. Nothing they say or do is ever going to affect the RPG industry ever again. They are not responsible for how games are played today, only how they were played 25 years ago. Their successors shaped the RPG industry in bigger ways, and we have THEM to thank just as much as the original founders.