cheshire_grin
First Post
Right, but there's no way to tell which way he was facing before he decided to take off--meaning he could take off directly away from the party; he just couldn't turn on a dime once up in the air.
Restricting Monster Movement
- Thread starter Lookoo
- Start date
However, if the dragon is within breath weapon range, the PCs should have been able to see it (60-80 feet away). If it did not have the Hover feat, it would have to be flying towards the PCs to use its breath weapon.
cheshire_grin
First Post
If it was in the air, yes. But if it's on the ground and decides to retreat, given that there are no facing rules in 3.5 it can just take off flying directly away.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Agreed. But we don't know, and at least IME, dragons don't land unless they can't hover at all. It's just plain better to stay even a little off the ground, especially at higher CRs with all the spellcasting.
frankthedm
First Post
Landing and take off are not separate actions, nor are fliers prevented from flying at ground level. Move Fly speed at floor level, land, breath. Next round move fly speed whatever direction you choose. Indeed, only time I believe landing is addressed is under Movement: moving In Three Dimensions.
Minimum Forward Speed
If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of falling. If this distance brings it to the ground, it takes falling damage.
Frank - I realize that, but the way the OP has described it, the dragon is moving so quickly away from them that it likely did not land at all. If it did land, the PCs would get their chances to contain it via spells (Wall of Force, Web, Stinking Cloud, Ray of Exhaustion, Holy Smite, etc) and also the melee-oriented folks could charge the dragon as well and get in melee whacks (most likely, suffering only one AoO in total because dragons normally have average dex at best)
If it is flying and strafing them with its breath weapon, it will still have to continue moving forward towards the party in order to keep flying, leaving it in spell range for at least 1 round. If it is hovering & breathing, it will also still be within range of at least spells for a round as well.
If it strafes them at the limit of its breath weapon range (meaning, after a move action) it will still be within spell range for the rest of the round, and the dragon will either have to continue flying over the party that next round, or pay serious movement penalties to turn around and flee (40 feet of movement needed to make a 180 degree turn of four 45 degree angles) and still likely be within spell range.
If it is flying and strafing them with its breath weapon, it will still have to continue moving forward towards the party in order to keep flying, leaving it in spell range for at least 1 round. If it is hovering & breathing, it will also still be within range of at least spells for a round as well.
If it strafes them at the limit of its breath weapon range (meaning, after a move action) it will still be within spell range for the rest of the round, and the dragon will either have to continue flying over the party that next round, or pay serious movement penalties to turn around and flee (40 feet of movement needed to make a 180 degree turn of four 45 degree angles) and still likely be within spell range.
frankthedm
First Post
OP did not seem to give that level of data in his description. Way I read it, the issue was the flight Speed letting the dragon rocket away from the battle.cheshire_grin
First Post
Yeah, there's no acceleration rules either; the dragon can go from a standstill on the ground to a double move directly away from the party in a single round, per RAW.
If it is on the ground, it would need to spend 10 feet of movement to go up 5 feet, as you can only climb at half speed. Not much, but every little bit counts in this sort of situation - especially since the OP said the dwarf ran to keep it at the edge of his darkvision. Maybe then, if the dwarf is also hasted, it could keep up with the dragon?
Also, if the dragon only goes up 5 feet off the ground, then it makes itself more vulnerable to spells that can be anchored to the ground (Web, Wall of Stone, Wall of Ice, etc) and also attacks of opportunity as it goes by the PCs. A Poor to Clumsy flying dragon also needs to climb at a 45 degree angle. If it needs to maneuver to avoid things like a wall of stone/ice, then it is losing even more movement.
So far this thread has been everything I'd hoped for.
What is an OP?
The dragon is 'hopping' from place to place. During combat, it is specifically mentioned that it hops from place to place, and never very far. I assume this hold true for when it retreats: it takes off in a direction at it's max movement and lands. Since we haven't had an encounter where we've casted fly + haste, I can't tell you how many times it double moves back. It retreats from whence it came, so I will grant the DM at least one double move without worrying about impaired vision (if it hasn't moved around too much this combat). Impaired vision is still a very good point and one worthy of consideration whenever we're in combat.
As to the dragon's fly mobility, I was not aware they required a running start. This makes casting a wall much more useful. Is there a specific design you would recommend? I think the wall needs to be at least 10 feet high so a huge dragon doesn't just 'step' over it, no?
I have some questions about some of the other spells mentioned, but I will do my homework before I ask. Aside from the Draconomicon, where are the basic flight rules? The MM?
What is an OP?
The dragon is 'hopping' from place to place. During combat, it is specifically mentioned that it hops from place to place, and never very far. I assume this hold true for when it retreats: it takes off in a direction at it's max movement and lands. Since we haven't had an encounter where we've casted fly + haste, I can't tell you how many times it double moves back. It retreats from whence it came, so I will grant the DM at least one double move without worrying about impaired vision (if it hasn't moved around too much this combat). Impaired vision is still a very good point and one worthy of consideration whenever we're in combat.
As to the dragon's fly mobility, I was not aware they required a running start. This makes casting a wall much more useful. Is there a specific design you would recommend? I think the wall needs to be at least 10 feet high so a huge dragon doesn't just 'step' over it, no?
I have some questions about some of the other spells mentioned, but I will do my homework before I ask. Aside from the Draconomicon, where are the basic flight rules? The MM?
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