Resurrection house rules: reviews, comments suggestions for a revision.

[LordVyreth]

I have a house rule that transforms resurrection into a skill check using a new skill, Knowledge (afterlife.) I need opinions on it, and also some ideas for a revision I plan on making. I know I have to make some changes, because it's far too easy to get the good results, especially with a cleric with maxed out skill points and using the best spell. I also am dealing with a druid in the party for the first time, and need suggestions on how to handle reincarnation based on this table. Horrid Retrieval, by the way, is a cheap and desperate 3rd level raise dead spell, that brings the target back at a stable -9 hit points, and rarely works anyway, as this table suggests.

Resurrection Rules

Base Rules: To make a Raise dead, check, make a skill check for Knowledge(afterlife.) You CAN NOT take 10 or 20 on this check. The roll is then modified further as listed below.

-5 penalty if casting Horrid Retrieval.
+5 bonus if casting Resurrection.
+10 bonus if casting True Resurrection.
+2 bonus if the cleric casting the spell was previously killed.
-5 penalty for each time the character being raised has been raised before.

Final Number Result
Less than 0 Character comes back as evil vampire/ghost.
0 Character comes back as evil specter.
3 Character comes back as evil wight/shadow.
5 Character comes back as evil ghoul.
7 Character comes back as zombie/skeleton, under control of the caster.
9 Character comes back as construct, under control of the caster.
10 Attempt fails. Another attempt can be made 24 hours later, but the –5 penalty for previous raise attempts is added.
11 Character comes back with complete alignment change.
13 Character comes back with permanent –2 on all ability scores.
15 Character comes back with a ghost.
17 Character comes back with permanent –4 on one random ability score.
19 Character comes back with a specter.
21 Character comes back with a split personality. An opposite-alignment personality emerges at random times.
22 Character comes back with 1 lost level.
24 Character comes back with permanent –2 on one random ability score.
26 Character comes back with 1-step alignment change in random direction.
28 Character comes back with wraith.
30 Character comes back with allip.
31 Character comes back with some weakness based on how he/she died.
32 Character comes back with some phobia based on how he/she died.
34 Character comes back as non-evil vampire. (-2 levels.)
36 Character comes back with template based on how they died (-2 levels.)
38 Character comes back with template based on their alignment (-2 levels.)
39 Character comes back as super-vampire, with no vampiric weaknesses! (-3 levels.)
40 Character comes back with no penalty at all!
42 Character comes back with some defense based on how he/she died.
44 Character comes back with some power based on how he/she died.
50 and above Character comes back with template (roll on table again, but roll 1d6 and add 33,) but with no level loss at all!

Casting a raise spell on consecrated/hallowed ground is risky. On one hand, it
prevents the player from coming back as or with undead. On the other hand, if the player would come back with a relatively minor undead that the party can defeat easily anyway, the attempt still fails, resulting in a penalty on all later rolls! Thus, raising in hallowed/consecrated grounds is safer for low levels, but not really worth it for high levels.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not sure on it, but I really like the idea that the person being resurected can come back as an undead.

 

[AeroDm]

At really high levels this is actually beneficial to die. Say 15 ranks, 20 int, skill focus, cast true res, have died before and you are +35 if my count is correct. Thus on an average roll you come back with an extra power. This is at 12th level. I think at the high point in teh game people will be trying to die so as to come back with templates and bonus powers.

 

[LordVyreth]

Well, the PCs don't have the table, making it harder to use it as a way to easy power. Also, the -5 penalty for each death makes it less attractive. I agree with the main point, though, which is why I plan on revising the thing.

 

[LordVyreth]

Hmm. Nobody else has any suggestion?

 

[LazarusLong42]

I like the idea in general, but like AeroDM I think it could get too powerful at high levels. And whether or not you give the players this table, anyone with that high a Knowledge (afterlife) should know that resurrections sometimes go awry, and they sometimes go very very well. I might suggest using a shorter table with a large "normal" area in the middle, and fewer "special" penalties. I would also change the roll into a caster level check. To wit:

Roll d20 + caster level + Cha mod.
A 5th-level caster casting Horrid Retrieval has an average roll of 11/12.
A 9th-level caster casting Raise Dead has an average roll of 21/22.
A 17-th level caster casting True Res has an average roll of 39/40
(Given appropriate Charisma scores at those levels)

<0:     Subject returns as a vampire or ghost.
1-2:    Subject returns as a wight or shadow.
3-4:    Subject returns as a ghoul.
5-6:    Subject returns as a skeleton or zombie, under the caster's control.
7-9:    Attempt fails; another attempt may be made with a -5 penalty after 24 hours.
10-14:  Subject returns with a loss of one level and a permanent -2 penalty to one random ability score.
        Subject is accompanied by a minor incorporeal undead.
15-19:  Subject returns with a loss of one level, and is accompanied by a minor incorporeal undead. 
20-24:  Subject returns with a loss of one level.
25-29:  Subject returns with a permanent -2 penalty to one random ability score, but no level loss.
30-34:  Subject returns with no level loss, but a weakness or phobia related to its death.
35-44:  Subject returns with no level loss or other penalty.
45-49:  Subject returns as a non-evil vampire or ghost and two levels lost.
50-54:  Subject returns as a non-evil vampire or ghost and one level lost.
55+:    Subject returns as a non-evil vampire or ghost with no level loss.

 

[Norfleet]

Meh. Everybody is too concerned with having resurrection at all. I still stand by my old "All Dead"/"Mostly Dead" rules. Resurrection of any type cannot resurrect anyone who is deemed "All Dead". Being decapitated, and having your severed head and headless corpse fall down a 300 foot cliff into a lake of molten brimstone is "All Dead".

 

[A'koss]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Meh. Everybody is too concerned with having resurrection at all. I still stand by my old "All Dead"/"Mostly Dead" rules. Resurrection of any type cannot resurrect anyone who is deemed "All Dead". Being decapitated, and having your severed head and headless corpse fall down a 300 foot cliff into a lake of molten brimstone is "All Dead".

Hunh... My resurrection rules for our low magic game are almost exactly like this. Could you repost them here so that we can compare?

IMC, we use Monte's AU rules for negative HPs (survive until [-Con Score] HPs) and you are "resurrectable" until [-2x Con Score HPs]. Eg. A Rogue with a 14 Con dies at -14 HP and is unrecoverable at -28 HP.

There is also only one resurrection spell in our game and it is very high level. Think of it's effects as more of a magical trauma team working on you - you have to be mostly intact. If your body is decapitated, disemboweled, incinerated, etc. you are DEAD-dead for unless your friends can somehow travel to lands of the gods and petition for your return (heh).

Cheers,

A'koss.

 

[LordVyreth]

Here's the new, improved(?) table. This version includes rules for reincarnation, minimized the template, and hopefully better altered the penalties so they are listed more accurately in order from worst to best.

For the record, I'm keeping it a skill check just for the sake of convenience (it's too late in my campaign to change it now,) but I'll probably make it a caster level check instead for future campaigns.

Resurrection Rules

Base Rules: To make a Raise dead, check, make a skill check for Lifecraft (Int.) You CAN NOT take 10 or 20 on this check. The roll is then modified further as listed below.

-5 penalty if casting Horrid Retrieval.
+5 bonus if casting Resurrection.
+10 bonus if casting True Resurrection.
+2 bonus if the cleric casting the spell was previously killed.
-5 penalty for each time the character being raised has been raised before.

Final Number Result
Less than 0 Character comes back as evil undead of a CR equal to the character’s +3.
0 Character comes back as evil undead of a CR equal to the character’s +2.
3 Character comes back as evil undead of a CR equal to the character’s +1.
5 Character comes back as evil undead of a CR equal to the character’s.
7 Character comes back as zombie/skeleton, under control of the caster.
9 Character comes back as construct, under control of the caster.
10 Attempt fails. Another attempt can be made 24 hours later, but the –5 penalty for previous raise attempts is added.
11 Character comes back with complete alignment change.
13 Character comes back with permanent –2 on one random ability score.
15 Character comes back with a split personality. An opposite-alignment personality emerges at random times (like Shedell/Kulstra.)
17 Character comes back with an evil incorporeal undead equal to the character’s CR +3.
19 Character comes back with an evil incorporeal undead equal to the character’s CR +2.
21 Character comes back with a permanent –2 to an ability score of their choice.
22 Character comes back with 1 lost level.
24 Character comes back with 1-step alignment change in random direction. If this results in an unplayable alignment or forces the player to make a class change, they can make a Will Save (DC 20) to decide the direction of the change and potentially keep their powers. Though even this won’t help a paladin.
26 Character comes back with a –4 penalty to all ability scores. No magic weaker than a wish or miracle can restore it, but it returns at a rate of 1 point for all scores every 1d4 weeks.
28 Character comes back with an evil incorporeal undead equal to the character’s CR +1.
30 Character comes back with an evil incorporeal undead equal to the character’s CR.
31 Character comes back with some weakness based on how he/she died.
32 Character comes back with some phobia based on how he/she died.
34 Character is blinded or deafened (50% chance of each,) for 1d4 weeks. This can’t be otherwise restored by anything less than a wish or miracle.
36 Character is exhausted for 1d4 weeks. This can’t be otherwise restored by anything less than a wish or miracle.
38 Character is shaken for 1d4 weeks. This can’t be otherwise restored by anything less than a wish or miracle.
39 Character comes with a template. Roll the template chart below for the exact result.
40 Character comes back with no penalty at all!
42 Character is treated as blessed for 1d4 weeks after resurrection.
44 Character gains a +4 divine bonus to a random ability score for 1d4 days after resurrection.
46 Character comes back with some temporary defense based on how he/she died, which lasts for 1d4 days.
48 Character comes back with some temporary power based on how he/she died, which lasts for 1d4 days.
50 Character comes back with the equivalent of a template (roll on template chart below.) There is no level loss, but the effects last only 1d4 days.
54 Character comes back with some defense based on how he/she died.
56 Character comes back with some power based on how he/she died.
60 and above Character comes back with template (roll on template chart,) but with no level loss at all!

Template Chart (roll 1d6)
The maximum LA of the change is equal to the ECL of the character divided by 4. The
minimum is 1. The only exception is if the only possibly options are greater than this maximum, the target still gets the template.
1-2 Character comes back as non-evil undead.
3-4 Character comes back with template based on how they died.
5-6 Character comes back with template based on their alignment.

Reincarnation
Reincarnation is generally much easier than normal resurrection, because the body
change is always required. Essentially, the check is whether the character can avoid
the level loss or suffer further effects, and if it works at all. True Reincarnation has a bonus of +10 to the roll.

Less than 5 Character comes back an animal with a CR equal to the former character. The character is lacking all intelligence and abilities, and except for the modified strength, constitution, dexterity scores, is treated as a normal member of the species. Nothing weaker than a wish or miracle will restore to their normal form.
5 Character comes back an animal with a CR less than 1. The character regains their intelligence and abilities, but are unable to speak or manipulate objects as a human. Nothing weaker than a wish or miracle will restore to their normal form.
7 Character comes back an animal with a CR of 1. The character regains their intelligence and abilities, but are unable to speak or manipulate objects as a human. Nothing weaker than a wish or miracle will restore to their normal form.
9 Character comes back an animal with a CR of 1. The character regains their intelligence and abilities, but are unable to manipulate objects as a human. Nothing weaker than a wish or miracle will restore to their normal form.
10 Attempt fails. Another attempt can be made 24 hours later, but the –5 penalty for previous raise attempts is added.
11 Character comes back as reincarnated, but with an additional penalty on the normal table. Add 1d4-1 to the base roll already made, and then consult the standard resurrection table for the penalty.
18 Character comes back with 1 lost level.
36 Character comes back with no penalty at all, beyond the normal reincarnation change.
42 Character is treated as blessed for 1d4 weeks after reincarnation.
44 Character gains a +4 divine bonus to a random ability score for 1d4 days after reincarnation.
46 Character comes back with some temporary defense based on how he/she died, which lasts for 1d4 days.
48 Character comes back with some temporary power based on how he/she died, which lasts for 1d4 days.
50 Character comes back with the equivalent of a template (roll on template chart below.) There is no level loss, but the effects last only 1d4 days.
54 Character comes back with some defense based on how he/she died.
56 Character comes back with some power based on how he/she died.
60 and above Character comes back with template (roll on template chart,) but with no level loss at all!

Casting a raise spell on consecrated/hallowed ground is risky. On one hand, it
prevents the player from coming back as or with undead. On the other hand, if the player would come back with a relatively minor undead that the party can defeat easily anyway, the attempt still fails, resulting in a penalty on all later rolls! Thus, raising in hallowed/consecrated grounds is safer for low levels, but not really worth it for high levels.
Undead created by this spell start with a reaction of hostile to the raiser. The shock of being brought back in an unliving body in such a traumatic way is enough for even evil beings to feel self-loathing, at least at first, and a desire for revenge.
Undead that enter the plane by this spell will have a desire to destroy the being raised with them. However, they will be aware of the situation and location they returned at, and if unable to make an effective strike on the being immediately, they will use tactics as their intelligence dictates. Most undead will flee if the raised being is surrounded by allies, and will attack later when it has the advantage of surprise.
The cost for having a raise spell cast is as described in the book, but the default caster will have half the normal ranks in Lifecraft. The non-material costs for the spell doubled for every additional 2 ranks of the caster, up to the maximum ranks for that caster.

 

[Stalker0]

I really like the cool effects you mention in the raising effect, it adds a lot of flavor to it. I agree though with everyone's prolems with a runaway skill check. Instead, I propose basing the check on the person being raised more than the caster.

For example, a straight d20 roll (or a cha check DC x) by the cleric changed by the following:

-x based on how many times teh character has died.
-x or +x depending on the alignment difference between the raiser and raisee.
etc.

Then you would consult the chart based on how far above or below the person made the dc.
That way there's the same risk and benefit for practically low and high levels.