Rethinking Psionics

[Glade Riven]

So, alpha concept: rethinking psionics.

I was looking back over Star Wars Saga's Use the Force and got an idea: Psionic powers manifest using a similar method as using force powers. But here's the major change:

1. Power points come into play to recharge a psionic ability after it is spent. Power points are a daily alotment, recharging with powers after an extended rest. This replaces Saga's 4e-like method of resting after a battle = full recharge, although I am considering that a psionic class would have to take a breather (or a full-round action in combat).

2. DCs to cast psionic powers would be a concentration check rather than a skill (use the force) check. A class would note whether it uses Int, Wis, or Cha.

3. Some classes may be able to use power points like ki/grit/arcane points for class features.

I am looking at using this sooner or later. Obviously, any and all text would be rewritten, refluffed, and sterilized of all Star Wars content. I may mine Book of Nine Swords's "blade magic" for more martial psionics.

 

[cattoy]

I don't like adding psionics to an established game system/world where it doesn't already exist.

In short - you're adding a disease to an environment where nothing has evolved a defense for it. It's everything's blind spot and in order to balance it, you need to rewrite EVERYTHING.

Not worth the effort, IMO.

 

[Rampant]

I think that reaction's a tad extreme. Just don't employ psionics are different.

However I gotta say the whole using concentration as a casting mechanic is doomed to failure. Pathfinder like 3e offers the option to increase skills at a rather dramatic pace, making it very difficult to balance a skill based casting system without assuming massive bonuses.

Furthermore I'm not certain what the OP is even trying to propose. It sounds like each manifester can manifest once per day but use PP to re-use powers already manifested that day. What's that supposed to accomplish exactly?

 

[Glade Riven]

In short - you're adding a disease to an environment where nothing has evolved a defense for it. It's everything's blind spot and in order to balance it, you need to rewrite EVERYTHING

No, just completly rewriting psionics. Most of the problems you are thinking of are solved by making them spell-like abilities. Fort, Ref, Will still come into play, and some powers will be vs. AC or CMD.

It sounds like each manifester can manifest once per day but use PP to re-use powers already manifested that day. What's that supposed to accomplish exactly?

Less variety in exchange for more usage. Saga has a recharge mechanic like 4e - wait a few minutes to catch your breath, and then powers restored. I do not want to use that. Too much like 4e. Saga also allows recharging via force points, so I'm adapting power points to be less like action/force points and more like ki points.

However I gotta say the whole using concentration as a casting mechanic is doomed to failure. Pathfinder like 3e offers the option to increase skills at a rather dramatic pace, making it very difficult to balance a skill based casting system without assuming massive bonuses.

Except concentration checks are not a skill in Pathfinder. That is a major difference between 3.5 and Pathfinder - you can't put skill points into it, you don't recieve the class skill bonus for putting ranks in it. The feat Combat Casting may play havok with it, but that is easy to work around. Glancing through the various Pathfinder books that I have, that's the only one that would play havok unless someone cross-classes into summoner.

The real issue with the concentration check casting method is that Saga, like 4e, uses static defenses where as Pathfinder keeps the Fort, Ref, Will save system. I have a few ideas, but it is going to take some testing.

 

[1Mac]

I've been thinking of applying a similar rule to casters in general.

Given how you want to use it, think of the caster check as a Base Caster Bonus, analogous to a Base Attack Bonus. You're right that it wouldn't scale as fast as a skill bonus would, but it still outpaces save bonuses as currently written. The fix would be to rescale save bonuses, so they better match caster checks. This means that regular magic classes would also have to be reconsidered in regards to save DCs, but you could just apply the same caster check rule to both magic and psionics users (I'm not sure why anyone would want too different a mechanic for magic and psionics anyway). This also means that saves also scale with skills and BAB, which opens up the possibility of some interesting new rules.

 

[SKid4]

Psionics are described in the D&D 3e Monster Manual as spell-like abilities that are usually usable at will.

...

There was going to be a point to that. I'll get back to you.

 

[Glade Riven]

Retooling all spells as an attack/caster check means that static defenses for Will, Fort, Reflex like 4e instead of opposing save rolls. I don't really want to do that, though, even for psionics.

Perhaps what would work better is having a caster check to determine the power of the effect (if it is a variable power based on a roll), but there is only a chance of outright failing a caster check under normal caster check rules (like if someone is up on your spot).

 

[Dark Mistress]

Dreamscarred Press did a pretty good Pathfinder set of Psionic rules. I am not a big fan myself but the book was the best done rules I have seen yet to included them in fantasy.

 

[3catcircus]

If I had the time, I'd consider taking the psionics rules from Spycraft's Shadowforce Archer (SFA) campaign setting and modifying them for Pathfinder.

Essentially, you obtain psionic abilities via feats, but then your use of them is dependent upon skill level.

Actually, you could even go further and apply this to magic too, as was done with SFA's magic system.

EDIT:

I spoke too soon - looks like someone has done a conversion (well, for the Fantasycraft/Mastercraft system).

 

[Glade Riven]

Dreamscarred Press did a pretty good Pathfinder set of Psionic rules. I am not a big fan myself but the book was the best done rules I have seen yet to included them in fantasy.

Yep, bought the book. It's a good book. Well, the art is kinda iffy, but the mechanics look sound. They do a good job of 'porting 3.5/d20 psionics and crankin' them to 11.

However, I get the vibe that it really is it's own thing. Psionic races seem to have a major leg up in a psionic campaign. Some of their design philosophy, while not bad, is something I disagree with. The product is ultimatly built with people who are already fans of 3e-style of psionics in mind.

I am on this thought track because sometimes it pays to reinvent the wheel. It brings us high-performance tires, for instance. I don't hate the power point system of d20 SRD, but I like Saga's Use the Force system better. So do a number of people that I know.