Return on Investment

[weem]

So, one can point out the hours vs. cost of a PHB vs. a movie until one is hoarse in the throat, but really that equation does not matter to real people; people don,t live their lives like that.

That doesn't mean it's not interesting to see/discuss though...

If we discussed only things that pertained to how we live our lives, there would not be much to say here, I would imagine.

I certainly don't live my life by that number or else I would have known the math already off the top of my head, but seeing the number is still interesting (at least to this real person)

 

[Morrus]

That doesn't mean it's not interesting to see/discuss though...

I agree. That'll be why I'm... err... discussing it. I'm not in the habit of discussing things I don't find interesting!

 

[Jack99]

WoW cost me around 6,25 cent an hour, not too shabby either. I prefer D&D though, but it is definitely infinitively more expensive.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Since I constantly obsess over gaming stuff I'll have to break it down by day. I've basically spent about $1.09 a day every day for the past 25 years on Roleplaying games which I argued to my Dad was cheaper and had longer lasting results (which didn't end up in medical treatment) than his smoking habit.

 

[glaucon]

Firstly, despite everything that will follow, I do think that I do get a good ROI for the money I've spent on gaming books.

Now, that being said.....

I have no problems paying $40 for a core book [CAN $], as long as the content is rich, and complete. Thus, my complaint. My comment here is going to age me no doubt, but as far as I'm concerned, there should be 3 core books. That's all. As we've seen with 4E already, WOTC has a business model designed to dupe the gamer into buying a book every few months...
There is no need for a DMG2, or a PHB2, etc., etc.

Of course, this explains why I've had to create all sorts of rules myself for 4E, which I'm more than happy to do. However, strictly speaking, I think as WOTC continues to follow this model, my ROI diminishes as theirs increases....

 

[Mistwell]

As we've seen with 4E already, WOTC has a business model designed to dupe the gamer into buying a book every few months...

Isn't that essentially the same business model since the invention of D&D? Maybe not always once every few months, but even 1e, and definitely 2e and 3e, they had a lot of products published after the first three.

I think the term "dupe" has a negative connotation in this context. I don't think people are being duped into buying more content. I think people like more content, and the employees of WOTC like making new content, and that is what keeps the doors open at the company. There is nothing nefarious about it. It's not a trick. A lot of us LIKE this business model.

 

[glaucon]

Isn't that essentially the same business model since the invention of D&D? Maybe not always once every few months, but even 1e, and definitely 2e and 3e, they had a lot of products published after the first three.

I have to disagree.
As I said, all that was needed was, at most, 3 books.
Of course yes, they still followed up with publications, but all of them were either modules, or 'supplements'.

I think the term "dupe" has a negative connotation in this context. I don't think people are being duped into buying more content. I think people like more content, and the employees of WOTC like making new content, and that is what keeps the doors open at the company. There is nothing nefarious about it. It's not a trick. A lot of us LIKE this business model.

It was meant to have the negative connotation.
If people like to look at WOTC as a resource for content, that's fine.
But the original spirit of the game was that content was up to the gamers. Perhaps contemporary gamers are just lazier..... ?

 

[Mistwell]

I have to disagree.
As I said, all that was needed was, at most, 3 books.
Of course yes, they still followed up with publications, but all of them were either modules, or 'supplements'.

That's not how I ready what you wrote. It seemed you had two concepts: 1) you only needed 3 books, and 2) the business plan was to dupe you into buying more books every few months. The sentence I quoted didn't include anything about core books only.

Second, all you need to play 4e is a DDI subscription, or just the PHB and MM (you don't really even need the DMG). You don't NEED PHB2 or MM2, any more than you NEED MM2 in 1e.

1e required at least three books, and most DMs bought at least the Fiend Folio, MM2, and Deities and Demigods, along with a setting and often a bunch of modules. Players often bought one of the expansion books as well. It was essentially the same model, just a bit more chaotic, less routine in scheduling, and more module focused.

It was meant to have the negative connotation.
If people like to look at WOTC as a resource for content, that's fine.
But the original spirit of the game was that content was up to the gamers. Perhaps contemporary gamers are just lazier..... ?

I disagree. The original "spirit" of the game was also to feed additional content to gamers from TSR. Heck, 4e still is far behind 1e as far as published products go so far.

1e was well known for tons of modules that gamers ate up, in addition to other books. That is content handed to people. It seems like most 4e games, so far, are made up by the DM. That is gamer-created content as well.

And then there were the supplements in 1e of Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures, Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, Manual of the Planes, and lets not even get into the settings and modules and gamer aids and such.

So I am not sure where this idea that 1e was not content driven by TSR as opposed to from gamers. It COULD be gamer-driven content, but no more or less than 4e COULD be. But both models try to sell you more stuff, and both models do not require that you buy more stuff to play the game.

And, as for your implication that those who like 4e are both lazy and being duped, well, how about we let that one go, OK?

 

[glaucon]

OK, now you're being insulting, along with in my opinion stating things flatly inaccurately. The original "spirit" of the game was also to feed additional content to gamers from TSR. Heck, 4e still is far behind 1e as far as published products go so far.

Interesting, I never recall reading anything about that in any of the original books.

 

[jdrakeh]

Interesting, I never recall reading anything about that in any of the original books.

You haven't read it in 3e or 4e, either. As for the truth of it, look at the hundreds of adventure modules, magazines, and other content published by TSR for D&D. 4e's product catalog is absolutely dwarfed by the back catalog of Dragon/Dungeon issues, modules, boxed settings, and other official OD&D/AD&D supplements.