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Seravin

Explorer
Hammerhead said:
However, in Book 2, PCs level much more quickly from massive amounts of XP gain from the hack and slash. To counter both the boredom and massive XP gain, I eliminated the Quaggoths from Monsters at War, replacing them with the Grells. In my group's experience, the Quaggoth fight was entirely uninsteresting and too easy. The Hook Horrors would probably have massacred them if a real war was happening, and the Grells make more interesting opponents.
Boredom can definitely occur with this. I know I started to burn out a bit. But for the most part, it depends on what you bring to it. I left the Quaggoth fight in because the characters were around 10th level. It really gave them a chance to cut loose, unload, and sling around some power. YMMV.

Hammerhead said:
Another real boring part of Book 2 was the Slime Temple and Smooth Caverns; while some parts of these areas were great, others were tedious and boring. I'd reccomend combining the best of these two areas.
I have to disagree here. Some of the most memorable moments in my game were here. But I will admit to a bit of cheating. I added a Svirfneblin Wizard/Oozemaster to dress up the Slime Temple - and then made sure the characters met him early on. They hated him. With a passion. And he hardly did anything to them - except for that bit with the rock-to-mud on the ceiling.

The Smooth Caverns are a chance to allude to the Rockseers if they haven't already met them. The strange statuary really freaked the party out.

Hammerhead said:
A further problem presents itself in converting the Savant Aboleth. One person reccomends taking them as is, so they're something like Aboleth Wizard 12 Cleric 12. How idiotic. You could give the Savant Aboleth Mystic Theurge levels, which would increase both Divine and Arcane casting without being particularily overpowering. However, some Aboleth will not be able to cast certain higher level spells they depend on, unless you increase their level even more. A simpler and better option, IMO, is to just make some high level Clerics and some high level Wizards/Sorcerers.
I agree here. Leopold and I are doing a publishable conversion here and we both agreed that Mystic Theurge is the best way to go. Note, that based on the 2e-3e conversion book, the the higher level aboleth will acutally end up with one more spellcasting level (A Cleric12/Wizard14 translates to 18 levels. This can give you a Clr3/Wiz5/MTh10 - giving the creature 7th level priest and 8th level wizard spells...fun, fun, fun. Add 8 'levels' of aboleth and you have an epic level monster.
It's entirely possible your characters are going to need the extra experience.

minor edits
 
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Seravin

Explorer
Heh. I could be doing conversions...

...but there are too many ideas running around.

I just did a count of critters in Shaboath:
2 BBEG
26 Aboleth (10 classed)
11 Mind Flayers (2 classed)
426 Major Guards across 4 species (75 derro, 22 Fomorians, 31 Ixzan, and 96-299 Kuo-Toa (Area 10 lists up to x2 the listed creatures out and about)).
89 Minor Guards scattered across 15 species/types
5 Raveners - Kidnapper strike team
18 Fiendish Emissaries (4 species)
72 Slave-Fighters (dominated human fighters)
19 Slave-Prisoners (10 Wizards, 9 Clerics)
107 Slave-Workers (Experts of misc. races kept around)
2 Misc. Prisoners of the Fiendish Emissaries
26 Misc Slaves located around (14 Ogres and selection of random creatures from area 11)

All total, about 803 people in the city - not including random encounters.
226 of them are rescuable slaves (except possibly the ogres).

Other ideas wandering about include:
How many spellcasters have been killed to date? Having 19 left seems awfully low.

The bigger question for me today though, is what are the mind flayers up to?
They're split into at least two factions. (side note - there is a book called Unveiled Masters. It's all about mindflayers, but perusing it leads to some even more interesting questions about what the mindflayers want here.)

Both groups worship Maanzecorian (I believe in 3e he's now dead).

Faction One sides with the aboleth, perhaps believing they'll share in the spoils when this is all over. I doubt they believe they'll be dominated. And they're led by some signficant priestly power.
God must have said it's all right - or at least that's what the mind flayers think at least. Fooled by the aboleth perhaps?
Where did these guys come from? There's about a dozen in the city overseeing some of the work. Is their city nearby? Possible a source of epic play if you want to go there.
What do they expect to get from all of this? Domination obviously. They're a leader race and this magic might help them start their empire anew.

Then there's Faction Two. They're not buying whatever it is the aboleth are selling. It would be small-brained to think the aboleth aren't going for the whole thing. And they're led by a decent level cleric also.
Except for the role-playing aspect they're less interesting if only because their motives are easy to understand.
Still, they obviously have some relationship to the first group - probably from the same community. If so, that community is large enough to afford having about 40 mind flayers leave the community (total number of illithids that I recall in the module).
 

Seravin

Explorer
General Information = on
From: DMGR4 'Monster Mythology' page 68
Maanzecorian (Intermediate God)
His are of concern is knowledge and philosophy.
He is described as viewing that the mind flayers are above all - others are fit only for food or slavery...but that occasionally the brains of other creatures may be of some use.
Sometimes he might appear as a negotiator between the mind-flayers and other races - if it's important enough.

His priesthood are tasked with gaining more knowledge, exploration of new teritory and the exploiting of knowledge gained. If they negotiate with other races it must be from a position of strength and include an element of condescension.
General Information = off

Conspiricacy mode = on
Here's a thought - based in part on the above. What if there are no renegade illithid? They're all working towards the same thing - the development of the towers of domination.
After it's proven that the towers will work (but before they do), destroy the towers and anyone who knows anything about them. You then True-Ressurect anyone that you need.

So, a few hundred years ago the illithid found out about this plan. Perhaps they were already in negotiations with the aboleth before - but now the aboleth need them as go-betweens to the surface world. In return the aboleth will share power.

Naturally the illithid don't believe the sharing part (nor do the aboleth expect them to believe). However they go through with it because of the knowledge of the process it affords and the chances it gives towards spying (take over a slave's mind and send him in to the tower - see what he sees; or interrogate any derro that deals with the Mad Derro in the center).
Whey the aboleth find out that they have to bring the city to the surface - even better (perhaps arranged by the mind flayers? It would be easier to take over once it was on the surface).

Now it's getting close to the time of activation. The illithid probably have their own plans in place - but then they lose contact with one of their slaving operations. By the end of the year the first incursion on the City of the Glass Pool occurs. Natually they defend the city, after all it's a good base of operations. When it falls though - that's when the illithid know they can use these adventurers. They're dedicated enough to make it all the way to the City of the Glass Pool and strong enough to take it down. They only need a little encouragement.

The Grand Savant has to die and all of its other savants - they're too big of a threat. Which means the Towers of Domination will be destroyed in the process. A small price to pay though for the unrestricted ability to make their own towers and not have to share power. The Derro Wizard they can ressurect when its all over.

So, you split off a small group of your number to recruit and test the adventurers.

Conspiracy Mode = off

I'm not sure if I'm going to use that idea, but if I continue the group past this, I may very well do that. Might be fun.
 

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