Return to theTomb of Horrors

[James McMurray]

Ok, my player will be beginning this epic meatgrinder of an adventure fairly soon, and I’d like to get as much input as possible first.

Anyone here already updated it to 3E? If so, where were the sticking points, and can I get a copy?

I’ve already got the update of the original, but I don’t think its deadly enough anymore (they removed a lot of the instant death stuff). The party goes into the place well-forewarned, so most things they fall into should be their own fault, and death isn’t exactly a permanent thing at that level anyway.

Finally, anyone whose ran this (in any edition), please feel free to offer any advice.

James

P.S.
For those tracking my party's progress, I've given the necromancer they are wanting to fight Mind Blank so she'll be hard to find. Now she's moved tot he Skull City in RttToH and will have worked her way up to Headmistress of the school by then (replacing the current headmistress).

 

[Warrior Poet]

Never played it, but I own the boxed 2nd-Edition set. I have to confess, it looks awful deadly to me - deadly enough, but I've only read through it, not actually played, so this is probably of no use to you whatsoever. I'm not sure how a conversion would look - maybe that's where it would lose some deadliness ...

Warrior Poet

 

[Trevalon Moonleirion]

I have the boxed set, and am currently running it very occaisionally for sheer hack-n-slash fun. We jsut rolled up a ton of high level characters and I play as the dice fall--no pulling punches here. The game is quite deadly, but for our hacking purposes, we just respawn a PC every time he/she dies, and I put a tally mark next to their name. It's quite a lot of fun.

I'm sort of converting the whole quest as we go along--we just got into the City that Waits. It's pretty easy to convert--I just note some DCs and some different skill checks than are in the book and go from there. I do have a few of the monsters updated though...drop me an email if you're really interested though.

 

[CWD]

Ran it in 2nd edition. 5 characters, one survivor. Of course, at that level its a trival matter to get someone raised.


*Spoilers*

* Moil is easily creepier than any Ravenloft domain. Play it up.
* The Winter Wights are without a doubt the nastiest foes in the dungeon (save acerack). Make sure the PCs fear their power.
* The PCs had a blast trying to wipe out the black academy. We spent many game sessions on hit-and-run raids into the city.
* Don't pull any punches, the PCs should have mondo resources available to them.
* They found the actual Tomb of Horrors BORING. "Yawn, another insta-death trap. Sigh. I try to disarm it. Aren't there any monsters here?" The tomb of horrors can be a cakewalk if the PCs use summoned monsters to set off the traps, especially in 3rd edition where they have access to low-level summoning spells.
*If you convert it to 3rd ed, I'd rework a lot of traps and rule-breaking magical effects. My PCs HATE it when the dungeons break the established rules of the game.

 

[The Sunderer]

I suggest you replace the Ghasts with something a bit nastier... When I started a run through I replaced them with Ghastly Ettins

 

[James McMurray]

Warrior Poet: Yeah, its deadly. But that's the fun. Characters at that level can be rasied fairly easily. Of course, that means the loss of a level, but that'll just make them more careful. If it wasn't as deadly, then the rewards for winning wouldn't be so great. (assuming they win of course)

Trevalon: My group will be using their own PCs, but I'd love to get a look at the converted monsters. I've got a Bone Weird from the Creature Catalog, and some conversions from another sight, but I didn't like the way they did them and was planning on redoing them myself.

CWD: Yeah, without a TPK, its hard for the group to permanently die. As for wiping out the city of necromancers, I don't know how it could be done. Even a normal city would be hard for a small band of adventurers to take out, and this one has several high level necromancers running around. Not to mention that the majority of the populace can do an automatic 2d4+2 for a few rounds via magic missile.

I suppose it could be done, but you'd definitely have to be sneaky about it. That's something my group of Heironious worshippers cleric, paladin, and sorceror) are no good at.

I can't wait for them to get to Moil. The sheer majesty and vast emptiness of the place is pretty creepy.

I never pull any punches. They almost had a death last night just going into the giant's lair. (-3 before he stabilized )

I haven't looked over the conversion to 3e for the orignal tomb yet, but I can almost gaurantee I'll be changing some things.

Sunderer: What ghasts are you referring to (they've slipped my mind right now, and I'm still in the middle of rereading it after about 3 months, so I may not have re-reached that point yet.

Thanks all! And keep those suggestions flying!

 

[Trevalon Moonleirion]

I'll just post some of the monsters that I converted myself here, they're not the best in the world, and might not be terribly balance, but i tried my best to follow the conversion guide:

• Grunther: Male Fighter 13; CR 13; HD 13d10; hp 161; Init +11 (Dex/Imp Inish.); Spd ft.; AC 16; Atk +23-+18/+13 melee (1d8 + 11+3/+4, battle axe), +16/+11/+6 ranged; AL NG; SV Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +2; Str 31, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 5, Wis 7, Cha 13, Height 6 ft.
  Skills and Feats: Climb 2, Spot 2, Use Rope 4, Swim 2, Jump .5 ; Blind-fight, Imp. Inish (2x), Power Attack, Cleave, Imp. Bull Rush, Sunder, Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus & Specialization(Battle axe), Run, Endurance.
  Possessions: Elsie (battle axe +3, +4 VS. undead & regenerating), Belt of Giant Strength (+6), eversmoking bottle.
  
  
• Molian Zombie: CR 10; Medium-size Undead; HD 9d12; hp ; Init +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Imp Init.); Spd 20ft.; AC 14 (+1 Dex, +3 Natural); Atk Slam + 3 melee (slam 1d8+1, frost attack 2d6 cold); SA Life drain, frost; SQ Undead; AL CE; SV Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +6; Str 13, Dex 12, Con --, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 15.
  Skills and Feats: (21)Hide +7, Listen +7, Move Silently +6, Spot +5; Blind-fight, Improved Initiative.
  SA: Life-drain (Su): Any creature that comes within 20 feet of a Molian zombie must make a Fortitude saving throw to avoid damage (DC 20). Failure results in the loss of 1d4 hit points which are transferred to the zombie up to itself. These lost hit points do not heal naturally—they must be healed through magical healing. If any being reaches 0 hp from draining it dies and stands a 13% chance of becoming a Molian zombie within 24 hours of its death.
  Frost (Su): Once per round the zombie can project a wave of frost at all foes within 30 feet. Targets who fail a Fortitude save take 2d6 points of cold damage. Those who fail this save must make a Reflex save to avoid being frozen in place by the sudden ice coating for 1d4+1 rounds.
  
  SQ: Undead: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.
  Unusual: Only consumption by flames, dissolution in acid, or similar means will permanently destroy a molian zombie.
  
• Negative Fundamental: CR 1; Tiny Outsider; HD 1d8; hp 8; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Spd 50 ft.(fly Good); AC 17 (+7 natural); Atk -3 melee (1d6 life drain); Face/Reach: 0; SA Teem; SQ Hard to see, damage reduction 10/+1, Immune to cold and mind-affecting attacks; SR 13; AL NE; SV Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2; Str 3, Dex 15, Con 5, Int 3, Wis 3, Cha 3, wingspan 2 ft.
  Skills and Feats: None
  SA: Teem-30% chance of occurring each encounter. Murder of creatures coordinate attacks on one person, swarming them and improving each creatures attack by +1 for every fundamental involved in an attack. So if ten successfully teem, their attack bonus is +7 (-3 + 10). The maximum bonus that can be reached is +14
  SQ: Because of dark coloration, opponents must make a Spot check at –2 to notice the creatures before they attack.

Hope this helps some! Good luck in running a great supermodule!

(My greatest memory from this one is still the party cleric getting smashed by the Indiana Jones-esque rolling boulder while he happened to be carrying almost 10 flasks of alchemist's fire and lots of oil flasks....ah jeeze that was great. He was quite crispy after that little fiasco...that'll teach him to be a pyro.)

 

[James McMurray]

Trevalon: Thanks! They look pretty good to me.

My party just got hit by the boulder too. All of them ate the 12d10, as they tried to flee rather than avoid it.

Please check out the thread entitled "Giant Defense" a the group is about to re-assault the giant's lair and I need some pointers.

 

[SonOfLilith]

Just make sure you're players want to play it. Our DM used to use the Tomb of Horrors as a threat. Also, make sure the characters don't have one of thoes "I love my character more then myself" bonds to it.

P.S. My barb will never die!

 

[James McMurray]

SonofLilith: My players want to play it. Mainly because they've been trying to build a keep, and if they clear up the problem, they'll be granted a keep by the Lord of the Gran March.

Also, make sure the characters don't have one of thoes "I love my character more then myself" bonds to it.

Don't wrry, my players are almost totally normal people, not over-obsessive freaks.