Returning to form

[Olaf the Stout]

The players had a clear unambiguous mission: find the Black Cauldron. It's in the tower.

The PCs knew about the arcane lock in advance. This is their second trip to the tower (they fled from the shadesteel golem the first time). They had a base from which they could commission minor magical items (scrolls, potions, lesser wondrous items).

The party had all the necessary information in advance. I fail to see how it is a failure of my DMing if they die due to not preparing contingency plans, and for pressing on even after the death of a PC.

Cheers!

I like to think that a good DM gives their players enough rope to hang themselves. Whether they do or not is totally up to the them. If the players knew about what they were dealing with in advance and made poor or stupid decisions that result in some or all of them dying you can't really blame the DM for that. You shouldn't reward stupidity. I like to think of it as nature's way of weeding out the gene pool.

Olaf the Stout

 

[MerricB]

That sounds awesome. Sometimes, a PC simply bites the dust, nothing wrong with that.

The Bard/druid/rogue is angling for Floruchan Lyrist, right?

Almost. Fochluchan Lyrist. (Is it the class with the hardest name to spell? Could be. )

In general, this group play pretty well. Their plan for getting rid of the shadesteel golem was inspired. (It needed to be, it's a really tough critter). However, there are holes in their play. I don't really think they react well to new situations.

When I play, I tend to play clerics, generalist wizards or bards, and I am *really* cautious. I tend to have plans for getting out of situations - my wizard will always have a teleport spell once these levels are reached. (Funnily enough, there's nothing stopping the party from teleporting or similar into or out of the tower save their own lack of such magic).

I'm not designing this campaign entirely with this group in mind, although there are encounters that play to their strengths. I do think they're reaching levels where they're going to struggle mightily because they only have one half-strength caster - who just died, anyway.

That there isn't a cleric in the group is something I keep in mind; they're meant to be rare in this campaign and so I do plan encounters so they don't need a cleric. However, the lack of good arcane magic is going to be a problem.

Cheers!

 

[Nightfall]

*still thinks his PC death tolls are better online than in real life.* Only because no one wants me to run.

Anyway glad at least you're having fun, Merric. Are you still running that AoW game with that one sword?

 

[MerricB]

Anyway glad at least you're having fun, Merric. Are you still running that AoW game with that one sword?

Well, not with that one sword (as Alden died, as I posted about a month or so ago), but the AoW sessions are continuing; we've had a 4 week break due to Real Life (normally I run sessions every 2 weeks), and the PCs will be continuing part 9 - "The Library of Last Resort" on Friday night. Still 5 legacy items active in that campaign.

That's a really fun campaign, if only because now, with all PCs at 15th+ level, it's really fun to see what they come up with. That's a good balanced party...

Figher 15
Fighter 4/Paladin 11
Cleric 15
Wizard 15
Druid 15
Rogue 15* (I think. Well, he might be a Ftr/Rogue, but I can't remember).

Oh, and I start Red Hand of Doom this Friday afternoon with my Living Greyhawk group. ^_^

Cheers!

 

[Joshua Randall]

I fail to see how it is a failure of my DMing if they die due to not preparing contingency plans, and for pressing on even after the death of a PC.

They. Don't. Have. A. Choice!

I feel like we missing each other's points here. My point: the party cannot leave the tower. Therefor, their only option is to press on.

If doing so leads them to their death, that might be "realistic" -- and maybe they really should have had a backup knock scroll in case their caster died -- but it's not going to be fun.

You can teach the lesson just as effectively by telling the players (not the PCs) that because of their poor planning, effectively they are all going to die. But you're going to take pity on them and let them find some other way out.

You don't have to teach the lesson by actually implementing a TPK.

 

[MerricB]

Read my first post again, Joshua.

They went into the tower. The Knight died. They pressed on. Big, big mistake.

Then the arcane hierophant died, and they were trapped.

There *are* two other ways out, but they don't know about them. I'm not going to tell them in advance. If your style of DMing involves handing the adventure to the players and saying "have a look", fine. It sounds extremely unfun to me - no surprise, no need for thought.

 

[Nightfall]

Merric,

So...how many PC deaths did Spires of Long Shadow produce? Or did those come earlier?

*Always thought for module designed for 13th level PCs, it was DAMN nasty.*

What did the PCs think of that? And how is the exploration of the Library going? Have they met their "evil" counterparts yet?

 

[MerricB]

Merric,

So...how many PC deaths did Spires of Long Shadow produce? Or did those come earlier?

*Always thought for module designed for 13th level PCs, it was DAMN nasty.*

It was. SoLS is one of several missteps in AoW. AoW has been a good campaign, but their are several adventures where the difficulty of encounters has been way off. SoLS and Encounter at Blackwall Keep come to mind (the latter is absurdly easy, with no challenge at all for the PCs).

Hmm... deaths...
The Whispering Cairn - none.
The Three Faces of Evil - two.
* Rogue died when the party, having prepared a plan to ambush some grimlocks, suddenly were in disarray when the druid actually read the spell entangle and found the area of effect to be a lot bigger than expected. Unfortunately, the grimlocks had just arrived at this point. Not raised.
* Sorceress died after the party lined up in a 5' wide corridor, just right for a wizard to hit them with a lightning bolt. Twice. Not raised.
Encounter at Blackwall Keep - none.
Hall of Harsh Reflections - three
* Cleric, Druid and Wizard slain by Mind-Flayer as the party conveniently lined up for spell effects. (all raised)
The Champion's Belt - one.
* Cleric died when moved out of "the line" and engaged the dwarf gladiators in melee. (raised)
A Gathering of Winds - none
The Spire of Long Shadows - two
* Paladin "slew" by undead. Avoided by use of the Fount of Fortune's Folly.
* Barbarian died when swallowed by a giant worm. Not raised
The Prince of Redhand - one
* Paladin died in combat with the Aspect, but instantly revivified.
The Library of Last Resort - none... yet!

And how is the exploration of the Library going? Have they met their "evil" counterparts yet?

Tell you after tonight.

The best adventure in the series so far is The Prince of Redhand.

Cheers!

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Your party seems to like making things convenient for opposing spell casters by coming up with formations that suit their spells! How is it that they stayed in the same formation after the first lightening bolt?

I take it that a lot of the deaths were due to the players not playing as smart as they could have been rather than just lucky or unlucky rolls?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Mycanid]

Sounds pretty good Merric ... of course, I wouldn't go into any planes, demi-planes or whatnot to begin with. Don't like em and don't trust em.

If a pc dies it is sad of course, but it IS just a game when all is said and done.

Btw ... did they really HAVE to go to the tower in the other plane (i.e. "railroaded" or part of the plot or such)? Or were they just wandering around?

I think you are doing fine. It can be a learning experience if nothing else, eh?

[[Yes, I know ... easy for ME to say. I haven't lost my 8th level whatever.]]