[Rev] Will they remove the toad?

[Shard O'Glase]

I don't know the 20 ft Base movement that dwarves get is a major pain in the butt. Nothing like have a movement of 10 while plodding along in Full Plate. It has definitely made me rethink a dwarf character at times. However I agree, that darkvision, +2 con and -2 in a throw away stat is pretty nice.

take a level of barbarian before you go fighter, show your dwarven rage and hey you get a 30' move as well. The group I run almost insisted that the drawf take a level of barb so he'd stop slowing down the group.

 

[Darkness]

take a level of barbarian before you go fighter, show your dwarven rage and hey you get a 30' move as well. The group I run almost insisted that the drawf take a level of barb so he'd stop slowing down the group.

Dwarven Barbarian/Fighters... Gotta love 'em, Rage and everything.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I've played with some big powergamers and I still haven't seen a toad in play. The uses of the other familiars massively outweigh the +2con the toad gets. And toads are classic familiars so styalistically they shouldn't be removed IMO. Me though I'm usually familiar free I think familiars in general are anoying.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Dwarven Barbarian/Fighters... Gotta love 'em, Rage and everything.

Yeah it fits in my head really well, because I always see dwarves as sorta viking like. I have no idea why, they don't travel on baots raiding things, but hey viking=dwarf in my mind.

The again I always ahd problems with the dwarf=lawful thing as well. Yeah I saw them as clannish(NOT KKK) in that they had a good deal of loyalty to their homestead and people but I saw them as drunken partyers with a tough day job.

 

[Henry]

The most obnixious player I have witnessed in recent years took one level of sorc, just to get the ability to use the class magic items and the +2 to con.

Yes, but couldn't you make this point with ANY familiar? If the player doesn't use a familiar at all, it would be with whatever familiar they have. What about a player who takes a raven, and uses it only as a periscope, forgetting about him at all other times???

Follow the advice of Piratecat the Wise in this instance - have the DM play the part of the toad. Nothing says that a familiar must be a mindless automoton of the player character. If the player mistreats the toad in this way, the DM should have the toad complain about the treatment, and demand better. What's the player going to do - Kill the toad for mouthing off, and lose his bonuses plus 300 XP? If the player treats his toad well, the DM can use said toad for assistance in puzzles that stump the party, or in insights that only a batrachian might have. (What if the TOAD is the one who understands the key clue to open the magic door to the fly-god's temple?)

This applies with not just familiars, but animal companions, bonded mounts, and NPC followers, as well.

 

[Darkness]

Yeah it fits in my head really well, because I always see dwarves as sorta viking like. I have no idea why, they don't travel on baots raiding things, but hey viking=dwarf in my mind.

The again I always ahd problems with the dwarf=lawful thing as well. Yeah I saw them as clannish(NOT KKK) in that they had a good deal of loyalty to their homestead and people but I saw them as drunken partyers with a tough day job.

That's a take on dwarves that I whole-heartedly agree on.

 

[schporto]

A player in my campaign uses a toad. We also have a druid who has a wolf companion. They actually got the bright idea once of taking the toad putting it on the wolfs back and having them do long range scouting. Pretty decent idea I thought. The toad does get used in other ways in the campaign. They actually have given the wolf hunks o' meat hangin in the kitchens of places and given the toad flys. And while it was chosen for its +2 con, they've found enough other uses for the toad that its worked well. Lots of scouting, tripped a door lock or two from the other side. Its worked well in our campaign.
-cpd

 

[Felon]

Of course the fact that the familiar was caught in area of effect spells was very conveniently forgotten quite often

A lot of folks treat a toad in the pocket like an item, in that it can only receive damage if the player rolls a 1 on his Reflex save.

I'm not saying that it's true, but a lot of folks play that as if it were canon.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Yep, I admit, I was a Dwarven Wizard with a toad familiar (at one point, the fighter and I had equal hitpoints...).

But my DM took a page from Piratecat's book... my toad complained about being in my pocket all day. So I was forced to feed him, etc. Then i started using him as a spy (with +21 to hide and being so small, he could hide anywhere). All of a sudden, he was pretty useful.

But the +2 to Con definitely makes up for the fact that Toads move really slowly. They can't really deliver touch attacks (I tried once, and the toad got there AFTER the mummy was already dead!) and they can't speak a language.

Right now I've got an Owl familiar. His use as a flying scout pales in comparison to having 1 HP per level extra. But of course, if you give all familiars darkvision, Owls are useless... but that's another argument entirely.

 

[Felon]

But my DM took a page from Piratecat's book... my toad complained about being in my pocket all day. So I was forced to feed him, etc.

OK, so when you're not engaged in a dungeoncrawl or some other dangerous activity, the toad comes out to eat and play. A sort of medieval gigapet.

OTOH, I assume that it's pretty easy to convince the toad that the inside of your pocket is the best place for them to be when bad things start to go down.

Is anyone contending that this de-munchkinizes the toad? If so, please explain how.