[Rev] Will they remove the toad?

[Darkness]

That's the real reason so many "wizards" and "sorcerors" have them around...

joe b.

Yeah, and the Con bonus to Fort saves makes it easier to resist side-effects, too. So you can have your cake (or toad) and eat (or lick) it, too...

 

[Skullfyre]

Plus if you lick them, you can get high.

mmm hallucinogenetic

*drool*

 

[Squire James]

Am I the only wizard who uses his toad familiar as a throwing weapon to deliver touch spells? I mean, the toad sticks to anything it hits and if it misses, well, it's got 15 hit points!

Do you know how many times I've played "toss the toad" to deliver a Jump spell to someone trapped in a pit? Well, zero, but that's not the point...

 

[Frostmarrow]

I'd imagine that the toad benefit will switch over to the d20 modern version, a flat +3 hit points. We can probably see quite a bit of 3.1 in d20 Modern.

This is what I was hoping to hear. Thanks Steve.

 

[Moxie]

Am I the only wizard who uses his toad familiar as a throwing weapon to deliver touch spells? I mean, the toad sticks to anything it hits and if it misses, well, it's got 15 hit points!

Do you know how many times I've played "toss the toad" to deliver a Jump spell to someone trapped in a pit? Well, zero, but that's not the point...

And if you spin 'em just right, that's one warty shuriken!

 

[incognito]

weighing in on the conservative side on this one.

+2 CON is too great a benefit, even if the toad is a sucky familiar.

Maybe this should be changed to +1 HP/level so it would not affect for saves? Or maybe it shoudl just give the toughness feat - although why toads are tough, I cannot answer.

 

[Henry]

And at any rate, "overpowered" should be defined by far less empirical methods than just looking at one's own group of gamers and deeming their choices to be representative of what *everyone* does. Some groups are more ahead of the munchkin curve than others

And so I have - your own group, and coyote6's, are more evidence as to my point. It may be a powerful option in and of itself, but then again, so are clerics. Clerics are arguably the most powerful character class out of the eleven base classes. Yet, most groups do not have powergaming players lining up to form all-cleric parties.

I'm not saying it's all the evidence I need, but it does reinforce that something is not too powerful if people are seldom choosing it.

...Well, most folks in my group find 3e arcane spellcasters on the whole to be unappealing. 3e divine spellcasters have so darn many advantages over them (hit points, BAP, Fort save, weapon/armor proficiency, no arcane spell failure rate, learn all spells automatically, all-encompassing spell list, turn undead, domain powers, shapeshifiting, etc.), with not so much to tip the scales back up for the arcane casters. Familiars certainly don't cut it. IMHO, some folks have it backwards. Don't nerf the toad, but rather give some love to all of the other familiars.

That I can certainly agree with. Familiars and all "beastly" companions really need to be emphasized, but I find it hard to see where the rules can emphasize them any more. As always, it's up to the gamers themselves to breathe life into the details.

But to answer your question, the handful of wizards and sorcerers that my group has seen over the last few years have for the most part passed on familiars altoghter. There's too much to lose when they die, and not so much to gain while they live. But the three that did have familiars picked the toad. Seemed like a no-brainer to them.

I can agree it's a powerful object, and was given this most likely for the same reason clerics were beefed up. Before, getting a toad as a familiar was a joke - it was the ultimate "screw" of the dice to a player (or at least was in my old gaming groups.) Now, in order to be a viable choice, it has to have something that compares with flight, darkvision, extra feats, and all the other cool powers of other familiars.

Again, I don't see in my group or on these boards examples of several characters taking a wizard level just to get a toad. If I saw that, then I could be persuaded otherwise. As it is, compared to single-level rangers, expert tactician abilities, and unerrata'ed mercurial swords, the lowly toad just ain't gettin' much rules abuse by powergamers, from what I've seen.