Reved-up Ioun Stone...

[Three_Haligonians]

The DMG tells us that an ioun stone that grants +1 to caster level is 30,000gp. So what about building one that granted +2? would that just be 60,000gp? +3 at 90,000gp? What I mean to say is, is it balanced to just have it cost a flat 30,000 per caster level increase or do you feel that at some point, that pricing system is no longer effective? What would you do instead otherwise?

Provided the character in question had a lot of money.. obviously

J from Three Haligonians

Edit: Hmm.. this may actually belong in House Rules..if that's the case... sorry!

 

[Cheiromancer]

I remember that it was ruled that the ioun stones stack. So you could have three +1 ioun stones to get a +3 total bonus to caster level. This seems to me to violate the same source rule, and I really wish that I had a link.

Otherwise, the normal rule is that you have to square the bonus. So if +1 is 30 000, then +2 would be four times as much (120 000), +3 would be nine times as much (270 000) and so on. You obviously wouldn't use this rule if you allow +1 stones to stack. There you might even give a small discount for having a combined stone than if they were separate (it can be undesirable to have all the eggs in one basket).

Pricing of magic items is to be discussed in the Rules Forum. This was hashed out a while ago in Meta, and the policy remains unchanged.

 

[glass]

I remember that it was ruled that the ioun stones stack. So you could have three +1 ioun stones to get a +3 total bonus to caster level. This seems to me to violate the same source rule, and I really wish that I had a link.

Are you sure about this? Ruled by whom? It does, as you say, violate the 'same source' rule.

Otherwise, the normal rule is that you have to square the bonus. So if +1 is 30 000, then +2 would be four times as much (120 000), +3 would be nine times as much (270 000) and so on. You obviously wouldn't use this rule if you allow +1 stones to stack. There you might even give a small discount for having a combined stone than if they were separate (it can be undesirable to have all the eggs in one basket).

Agreed on both counts.


glass.

 

[Kieperr]

Using two Ioun stones would be the same as using two Speed weapons. You gain the benefit from only one, not both. This is from the same source rule, they may be two seperate items but they grant the exact same benefit so they overlap.

 

[IndyPendant]

...except that Ioun stones provide "+1 caster level" with no "does not stack" clause.

It's not bonuses from similar sources that don't stack; it's bonuses with similar names. A cloak that gives a +1 resistance bonus to saves and a +1 luck bonus to saves would give the character wearing it a net +2 bonus to saves.

Two Ioun stones, as far as I can tell, would each give their unnamed +1 bonus to caster level, for a net +2 bonus.

--If I'm wrong, I'm certain Patryn and/or Hyp will jump in and post the relevant quotes. : )

 

[Stalker0]

Technically two bonuses from the same source also don't stack.

For instance, you can't cast the same spell (that has a duration) on yourself multiple times, even if the bonus it grants is unnamed.

 

[ThirdWizard]

That's only for spells AFAIK. Magical items have no such restriction. If you had two bracers that both gave a +2 unnamed bonus to Strength, they would stack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The problem is that the 'same source rule' isn't actually a general rule. It appears as a specific rule in a couple of places:

Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.

and

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves.

However, the orange ioun stone is not a spell, and does not provide a circumstance bonus, so neither of these applies.

The 'same source rule' is something that people have generalised from the above, but as far as I know, it doesn't actually exist. So what we have is multiple magic items providing an unnamed bonus to caster level... and as we know, unnamed bonuses stack.

-Hyp.

 

[Kieperr]

So what we have is multiple magic items providing an unnamed bonus to caster level... and as we know, unnamed bonuses stack.

-Hyp.

Unless they come from the same source. In which case they overlap in the same manner as circumstance bonuses.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Unless they come from the same source. In which case they overlap in the same manner as circumstance bonuses.

They aren't from the same source anyway.

EDIT: Note that there is no "same source" rule for magical items. Even if there were, it would apply to one magical item giving the same bonus multiple times. For example, bracers that give +2 damage 5/day for 10 rounds being activated before another activation's duration has expired.