Review of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay

[wedgeski]

All of the criticism of the review has left me perplexed. From where I'm sitting it looks like a bunch of people have teh hat for Ryan Dancy and have decided that anything he says about their fave game must be bad because he was the one saying it. :shrug:

I agree. This article does read more like an essay than a review though. Mr. Dancey invited criticism on that alone, and perhaps would have been better served posting his comments in a new thread over here. Having said that, it told me everything I needed to know about whether or not to buy it, and I probably will.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

First, please let me point out that I have never owned nor played any WHFRP games.

You immediately need to rectify that, you know.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Do pick it up. I like D&D as much as the next guy, but WFRP makes for a terrific change of pace.

Amen! I really like WFRP, and wish I could get a group to play it.

I was going to start a WFRP game, in large part because of the character creation system, but 2 of the players had already played AU/E with me, and we went with that so that we'd have some people who knew how to play.

 

[Jonny Nexus]

Well, but looking at the game in a big picture sense, he was correct. Besides, the review *was* positive, so why all the fuss?

It doesn't matter if a review is positive, if it says things that aren't actually true - especially when those things falsely imply that the game is inferior in certain areas to another game, a game which the author of the review had a hand in developing. In that case, the "positive things" come across as actually being part of the fraud, because they make it more likely that a reader will believe the mistruths.

i.e. If I was going to tell some lies about someone, I'd surround those lies with a load of vague complements to make it sound like I was "trying to be fair".

For example:

Joe's a really great, kind guy. Yeah, there's been a few incidents in the past with him stealing things, but I'm sure he's got over that by now, and even if he hasn't, he's such a great guy that I recommend being his friend in spite of those issues!

 

[JoeGKushner]

Do you think it's easier if you tell a d20 group "You can make whatever character you want", and they show up with a fighter, a ranger, a wizard and a monk for the Tomb of Horrors? It's also tough in d20 games if certain roles, like rogue and cleric, are not filled in. That's why we see variants like Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, I suppose.

Can't speak for RyanD, but for me, it's not as much an issue for short term battles. The levelling aspect of the game gives characters in D&D some equal ground.

In point based games, GURPS, Hero, and games that are semi-leveled like Warhammer, it's not quite so easy. There is no automatic advancement of hit dice. There is no automatic knowledge of spells. There are no expectations that you'll have items worth xxxx g.p. Because of these factors, it can be much more difficult to come up with opposition that can match the heavy weights of the group, and not slaughter the thinkers of the group.

Even in D&D, a wizard with d4 hit dice who gets up to 10th level, still has 10d4 hit dice, and perhaps some Con bonus. There's not a lot of that going on in Warhammer.

 

[Ghostwind]

I guess we didn't read the same review. I can tell you that before I read it, I had not even considered buying the book, but now I intend to give it a close look, and may even pick it up.

All of the criticism of the review has left me perplexed. From where I'm sitting it looks like a bunch of people have teh hat for Ryan Dancy and have decided that anything he says about their fave game must be bad because he was the one saying it. :shrug:

I've got it and am quite impressed with it. In fact, I am strongly thinking about running a WHFRP game at the store because of it.

When I read the reviews, I felt that Ryan was using 3rd ed D&D in a way to give the casual reader a point of reference. Not as a means to bash/glorify one system or another. Most online gamers are familiar with D&D, so it is only logical that if you were trying to explain a system that wasn't d20 D&D, that you make comparisons against it to give readers an understanding of your point and a frame of reference.

 

[Maggan]

You know what they say ...

I've got it and am quite impressed with it. In fact, I am strongly thinking about running a WHFRP game at the store because of it.

When I read the reviews, I felt that Ryan was using 3rd ed D&D in a way to give the casual reader a point of reference. Not as a means to bash/glorify one system or another. Most online gamers are familiar with D&D, so it is only logical that if you were trying to explain a system that wasn't d20 D&D, that you make comparisons against it to give readers an understanding of your point and a frame of reference.

Well, you know what they say; "Everyone is entitled to an opinion ... except Ryan Dancey."

And before I get jumped on for defending "satan and the greatest evil that has befallen the rpg industry" (to paraphrase comments in RPGnet, let me just say that I feel Dancey gets some things the wrong way, and no, I don't take his word as gospel, but I've read far worse reviews than his.

Maybe that's what's behind this outcry; a fear that people DO take Dancey's word as gospel? Could it be so? Do people really do that?

/maggan

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Can't speak for RyanD, but for me, it's not as much an issue for short term battles. The levelling aspect of the game gives characters in D&D some equal ground.

Well, starting WFRP characters are also all on equal ground - they are all a bunch of loosers.

In point based games, GURPS, Hero, and games that are semi-leveled like Warhammer, it's not quite so easy. There is no automatic advancement of hit dice. There is no automatic knowledge of spells. There are no expectations that you'll have items worth xxxx g.p. Because of these factors, it can be much more difficult to come up with opposition that can match the heavy weights of the group, and not slaughter the thinkers of the group.

Even in D&D, a wizard with d4 hit dice who gets up to 10th level, still has 10d4 hit dice, and perhaps some Con bonus. There's not a lot of that going on in Warhammer.

There is some truth to that. D&D is nearly alone in its rigid conception of "how powerful" advanced characters are (including the "typical wealth" numbers). This has some powerful advantages - it is easy to create "appropriate challenges" for your PCs, and making one-shot adventures for more experienced characters are also easier, since they all tend to be fairly equal in combat effectiveness (though in different fields of expertise).

Still, equally experienced characters in other RPGs - such as WFRP - all have strengths that aren't matched by the other characters. The difference is that "strength" or "usefulness" of a character is not focused on combat - no one expects a Noble Lord to be the equal in combat of a Judical Champion, even though both are likely to have the same number of experience points.

So at least for the more powerful WFRP characters, you have to write the adventure to fit to the stregths or weaknesses of the characters if you want to create a "balanced adventure". This can be a problem and requires some adjustment for some game masters. Still, it is not too much of a problem for WFRP, since the characters are never really intended to get really powerful in the way high-level D&D characters (or Exalted characters) are. So pretty much any encounter can be "challenging", whether the characters are experienced or not.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Well, you know what they say; "Everyone is entitled to an opinion ... except Ryan Dancey."

This has nothing to do with Ryan Dancy - at least, not for me. It's just that if I notice a rather obvious error in a review, I will say precisely why I think that review was in mistake.

The last time that happened was when someone reviewed Blue Rose and got a number of things wrong about the setting. In response, I wrote my own review.

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Why this review treats WFRP almost as Dungeons and Dragons supplement?