Review on some of the Quint Books (long)

[Stalker0]

I just recieved 4 of the quint books for christmas. A lot of people on the boards gave me some useful advice about book buying, so I want to return the favor for others and let them know what I thought of these quint books so they have an idea if they would like to buy them. I'll include a brief summary of what the books include, and what I thought of each section, but no details, you'll have to buy the books for those

Note: Anything with an * applies to all the quint books I'm reviewing.

The first is the Quintessential Druid. I love the idea of the druid class, but like many I was looking for something to make the druid more.... druidic. And this book gave me EXACTLY what I was looking for.

The book opens with character concepts*. These are various background templates that can be applied to your character. It includes background, reasons for adventuring, and roleplaying tips. It also gives your character some advantages and drawbacks. The concepts are a good way to get your character onto the drawing board if your stuck, but imho the benefit/drawbacks need to be looked at very carefully. Many benefits are not balanced with their drawbacks, and some concepts are innately better than others. I recommend forgoing the benefit/drawbacks, and just use the backgrounds for....backgrounds.

Next are Prcs*. I'm not a big Prc fan, and not the best at understanding their balance, so I'm going to skip this section under pretense of underqualification.There are 9 new prcs.

Next are Tricks of the Trade. There's some excellent stuff in this section, including how to use foraging in nature to make it cheaper to craft both mundane and magic items, as well as harvesting magic creatures for magic components. This gives some excellent advantages for druids, and makes wilderness lore and knowledge nature very useful!! Finally, it gives some added discussion of the druid language.

Next are feats. 14 in all, and I was impressed by them. Many improve wild shape, and are similar to MOTW feats. Power wise, the feats are in line with others I've seen. Without going into specifics there is a feat to add elementals to your summoning spells, increase your animal compansions, and of course the wildshape feats.

Then Tools of the Trade: Some new items and armor, not much to say about that. Then there are attuned foci. These are interesting, they are natural concoctions that increase your spellcasting power. Interesting concept, but they don't give enough examples to make it work, unless you put in the time to make your own. Then there's a list of herbal recipes to help with a variety of things. There's a better list of these, and all are fairly useful for a druid.

The next section is Living Magic. This is one of the best sections in the book, detailing ways of growing gardens to make potions and scrolls. While the time to grow them is long, for adventures who have a lot of off time, or as npc gardens they are excellent concepts. Then there are investitures, which detail ways of imbueing people with spell-like abilities instead of relaying strictly on magic items. Its a great alternative for people tired of a player's worth being solely based on what he carries, although the process may need to be tweaked a bit to keep it in power with just making magic items. Then there are rules for creating LIVING ITEMS, basically you can infuse a creature at birth with magical abilities, that it will pass off to offspring. Its a great way to introduce new and varied items, as well as creating interesting new pets for druids. Finally, there are new magic items. Many are living items that bond directly to you, others are more standard but all are very exciting, although some are a bit high level and expensive.

The next part is a section on Druid Life and Culture. It includes some of the druid heiarchy as well as giving some options for a player to explain how he entered the druid order. This allows you to create a backdrop for your druid characters similar to a clerics temples, but all too unique to teh druid.

Another great section is the Otherworld. Basically, this is a parallel world that is almost exclusive to druids. What more could you ask for!! It explains the dimension, how to access it, what's in it, and how it differs from the material world. Enough material for several adventures in the otherworld.

Next is the section of Druid spells. There's a brief section on creating new spells, but not too intensive. However, the new spells are for the most part unique to the druid and cover spells from 1st to 9th. There are 35 new spells in all. Most notable are a variety of new summoning and calling spells unique to the druid. The only spells I am worried about are the new friendship spells, that function exactly like animal friendship except you can call beasts, magic beasts, vermin, elementals, the list gets better and better as you go up in levels and gain higher level spells. The potential for abuse is huge, so I would highly recommend curbing these spells with strict hd limits and other restrictions. But all in all, I'm happy with the new spells.

The next section is the Path of the Shapeshifter, which in my opinion the worst section in the book, simply because it is so obviously overpowered and abusive. For anyone whose ever played the shifter Prc from MOTW, you know how extremely powerful they get, and that's without spells. Now give the shifter druid spells of its level. Now give them the supernatural and spell like abilities of their forms and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the druid just became the most powerful class in the book, bar none. Honestly, I would skip this section, or take their ideas with two bags of salt and work like a madman on new restrictions to make it work. The one shining light in this part is the new swarm form, that lets you morph into a swarm of bees, flies, and other type creatures, which is a unique idea that I would give a try. The other really cool idea in this section is the idea of partial and combinational shapeshifting. Basically its a system to transform similar to lycanthropy, with only parts of you changing. But the system described in the book is still too overpowered for what it allows. However, with a bit of restrictive work, this part of the system is workable and I highly recomened it to really give druids a new flare.

But getting past that section there's plenty more goodness ahead. Next section is about sacred groves, which talks about there design, as well as the powers of a sacred grove and of its guardian. Its fantastic for those wanting to visit druid homelands.

Finally, my favorite section of the book. Circle magic describes ways for groups of druids to conduct rituals to create enormous magical powers, include the ability to destroy buildings with lightning, control the weather, and call about guardians of godly power. Circle magic allows a PC druid to on occasion be a part of something really grand when he's at home, and it allows for DMs to make Druids home's that much more special.

By getting this book, PC Druids gain new feats, background ideas, Prcs, spells, magic items, and uses for their skill. Most importantly, most of this stuff is druid only. A lot of the new stuff is interesting, and only for you

Dms gain the ability to make Druid homes not just some place in the woods, but magical gardens that rival castles. Also, the new powers of the Druid collective can turn a group of druids from a bunch of treehugers to a teeming power that can weild considerable power for its friends and against its enemies. And the new types of magic items give you a chance to refresh that sense of awe for those who are tired of teh same +1 swords and rings of protection.


Out of the four books I'm going to review, this is my absolute favorite. It is a wonderful book for druids, and for Dms who want more druid stuff. I highly recommend buying it.

In a little while, I will post my review of the Quint Cleric.

 

[Sanackranib]

Q books

If you liked the Druid wait untill you read the Rogue.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Thus far I've got Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, Monk and Dwarf. I've not read the last two yet. The first three, though, are excellent sources of material. Some things don't seem to gel right with me, but only in execution. Examples from the Fighter book:

Fighting Styles. I don't particularly care for the add-on quality of these, and thus built them up into 5 Level Prestige Classes. Otherwise, good stuff.

Flamberge. Don't like it as a Martial Weapon. Cost was once cited as the balancing factor, but that is easily overcome before completing 1st Level, so I changed it to Exotic.

Siege Weapons. Added another Weapon grouping, gave it to my Soldier Class.

So, it's just a bunch of little things. However, comparing it to Sword and First, I can honestly say QF is the better book (using about 70% of QF +10% of QF modified, compared to 10% S&F +10% S&F modified). I'd also use more of QF if I used published Prestige Classes, but I don't, so...

 

[Stalker0]

Q Cleric

With the Quint Cleric, I wasn't looking for power or flair. The cleric already has lots of that. I was looking for increasing the backdrop of the cleric, increasing the depth of his religion and of his relationship to the order of his faith. Well the Quint Cleric book didn't give me the thrill the Quint Druid one did, it did give me what I was looking for.

You get the character concepts and 6 Prcs*.

Under Tricks of the Trade, there's a system for converting people to your faith which is detailed and provides a solid understanding of how a NPC or PC cleric can gain new converts (and followers). There's even a way to convert whole communities, which is often a special chance for a PC cleric to do something grand when out in far off lands. The next section deals with making holy symbols, and using divine geometry to grant bonuses to spellcasting and crafting items, which is a cool way of describing rooms in a clerical temple to give it purpose. There's a system for administering emergency care when improves the use of the heal skill, and gives the party a chance to help the cleric when he's down for the count. There's an interesting section on harvesting relics from dead clerics to gain power, and adding holy symbols to your weapons and armor to allow you use them in combat more easily. Most interesting to me was a section on clerical battles of faith. Instead of a mages duel of magic, the clerics can fight using faith which is a nice way for a PC cleric to roleplay his way out of a situation instead of resorting to combat. While most of this section isn't hugely revolutionary, it does fill in some nice details to clerical life.

The feats section had some nice clerical only feats. Like the ability to enhance your turning, hold power over congregations, increase your leadership power, and enchance poison. While some of the feats are normally for npcs, most of the feats seem thought out and interesting, especially for a cleric with a flock to tend.

Under tools of the trade, the book provides some awesome armor types that are only given to special guardians of the church, and cannot be bought. Unfortuatualy, without a market price, it can be tough to know how power this is to give. Finally, there are a wide variety of ceremonial tools to flesh out any prayer service, and can be used as improvished weapons if necessary.

The congregation section is one of my favorite sections. It gives some detailed accounts on how to establish a congregation, and how to keep it. Interestingly, certain alignments have it easier when it comes to getting converts, but other have the advantage in keeping them. It also explains the needs of a congregation, which are great for DMs would want to have adventure hooks based in churches and temples. The section then describes the benefits of a congregation. This expalins how to use your flock for labor, for skills, as an army, or as sacrifices. Its excellent for Dms wanted to flesh out their churches and make them more then just buildings, but forces of change upon the land. But this power is most noticable in the hymms. The books creates a system to give great power to the clerics through the power of their congregations. Its grants awesome powers to protect and destroy, and even better gives detailed hymm powers FOR EACH DOMAIN!! While I think some of the powers are a little too easy to pull off, the hymms are for a temple based adventure, especially agaisnt an evil temple.

The section on serve the gods is one of the most important in the book because I think it finally gives PC clerics some grounding. Clerics gets spells, armor, healing, but this section gives them the price for it all. The section lists a variety of vows the Dm can choose clerics of religions to be forced to take, as well as the penalties for breaking them. It also includes guidelines for penance. This is a great section to enhance roleplaying and to help bring some of those power clerics back down to earth.

The next section gives an alternate way to do domain spells, gives two domain subtypes per domain that change some of that domain's spells. While it opens up the possibilty for min/maxing, its a interesting new way to give life to dusty old domain spells that everyone is tired of having.

The spells section was very disappointing for me. Some of the spells are incrediably powerful, like a 6th level spell that can destroy every magic item you possess!! And almost every spell listed is level 7 or higher. There are a few 3rd level spells, but all in all, not a lot of anything for clerics until they hit very high levels.

The fallen section describes what happens to clerics who fall from their faith, either by losing faith, joining other churches, etc. It provides some good background for PC clerics thinking of undergoing a big change, and provides good NPC backgrounds.

The sacrificial rites section is my favorite section. It describes a system where PCs can sacrifice to gain the favor of the gods. The sacrifice can be lives or items, but it must be a true hurt on the PC. It also describes what that divine favor might be, depending on the sacrifice. This system allows a dm to call on divine intervention without being arbitrary about it, and in a systemic way. And it gives the PCs a chance to try something really big and get big results, but with a dm oversight. Each domain has its own way of sacrificing, again increasing the uniquenss of the domains.

The final section is on temples, which gives guidelines for creating and defending temples as well as explaning some of the things a temple would have.


While the Quint Cleric book did not get me as excited as the Quint Druid, I don't think it can be expected to. Clerics are a much more developed and rounded out class than druids in the corebooks, and this book continues to improve upon that. PCs get access to some new uniqueness in choosing domains, as well as a more defined understanding of the relationship of the cleric to his people, his god, and to his temple. It allows you to develop your religion much more than just I believe in god x and gives you the advantages and consequences of doing so. Dms gain the power to make temples and churches come alive with divine and mortal power and become much more than simple buildings.

I recommend this book to anyone who wishes to push the cleric to new heights and flesh out their worlds religion, but not if your looking for a radical new way to do clerics.

 

[Neo]

The next section is the Path of the Shapeshifter, which in my opinion the worst section in the book, simply because it is so obviously overpowered and abusive. For anyone whose ever played the shifter Prc from MOTW, you know how extremely powerful they get, and that's without spells. Now give the shifter druid spells of its level. Now give them the supernatural and spell like abilities of their forms and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the druid just became the most powerful class in the book, bar none. Honestly, I would skip this section, or take their ideas with two bags of salt and work like a madman on new restrictions to make it work. The one shining light in this part is the new swarm form, that lets you morph into a swarm of bees, flies, and other type creatures, which is a unique idea that I would give a try. The other really cool idea in this section is the idea of partial and combinational shapeshifting. Basically its a system to transform similar to lycanthropy, with only parts of you changing. But the system described in the book is still too overpowered for what it allows. However, with a bit of restrictive work, this part of the system is workable and I highly recomened it to really give druids a new flare.

Good Review Stalker, I playtested Quint Druid and my lot did quite a bit of testing the many facets of the book, including the Paths of the Shapeshifter chapter. In defence of this chapter I wanted to take a moment to point out some of its good points.

Contrary to the beliefs of some the balance for this chapter is actually pretty good and in many cases a new form is only a convenience as the actual power of what is provided is far less capable than that which a character of the lvele necessary to gain the benefits is normally capable of on thier own. I actually go into this in more detail in the D20 Publishers "Quintessential Druid...a couple of questions" thread. The actual prerequsities for the various abilities granted are actually sensibly placed. The actual benefit of shapeshifting becomes less obvious the higher your level as you naturally have more capbility in yourself, which is part of the charm of this chapter.

Also just to reiterate something, which isn;t all that clear from your review the Paths of the Shapeshifter folks covers things a normal druid could do, it is not a PRC and nor does it build upon the Shifter in the MotW.

This particular may not be for everyone, which is cool, but trust me when I say as far as balance goes its pretty close to the mark.

The only part of it I take issue with is the Undead Wild Shape, that just didn't fit and was totally unplausible I and my group felt, but others must have felt it was okay as it made final print.

anyway if you like this book check out mongoose's site there is some material which couldn't be fit into the printed book available for download as a free web enhancement.

 

[Stalker0]

Q Dwarf

I bought the Q Dwarf for the simple reasons that while humans are great, I want to give my players some more incentive to play the other races.

As before, the book starts with character concepts and 8 Prcs*.

The Tricks of the Trade starts out....where else...with beer However, the book gives dwarven beer a unique twist, allowing the drinker both bonuses and penalties when consuming it depending on the type of beer consumed. There is good variety, and enough incentive to see some dwarves carry around kegs for "special emergencies." Next are special combat tactics that dwarves know and use. While some are alright, so of them are very effective in cavernous areas (and in most dungeons, it comes up a lot). This makes a dwarven fighter more than just a normal fighter, sure that human has an extra feat, but some tricks you don't learn as feats. Then there's a section for new uses for old skills, a great addition to helping some underutilzed skills like appraise, intimidate, intuit direction, and others. While not revolutionary, the are a nice touch.

The Dwarven Feats didn't impress me that much. However, there were a few that were cool, like ones that gives some resilence against blugenoing damage. Unfortunaely the resilence is kind of weak. There are also a lot of feats that gives lots of bonuses against smalller creatures, if your campaign features that it can be a nice bonus.

The tools of the trade are much more involved than the ones for the Quint Cleric and druid. The dwarves have some new weapons, the most interesting is teh runecannon, a mobile artilery piece. The book contains extensive rules on how to use it, as well as how to modify it to your liking. Armours also have a very unique flare, several of them posses extra benefits and drawbacks over normal armor, like being very effective against slashing damage, but terrible against blugening.

I have mixed feelings about the subrace section. While more racial variety is great, some of the subraces seem to get a big advantage, like having huge bonuses against spells which I often think isn't balanced with other drawbacks. But for variety and uniqueness to your dwarf, they are great for added stats and for the background they bring.

The Dwarven Magic section is extremely extremely cool and imho put the Quint Elf magic to shame. With the right feats, dwarven mages can create runes, which are like super scrolls in that you can use the energy to cast ANY spells from a certain school. However, the runes carry extra risks and costs to balance their power. Also grafted runes can be used to grant abilities to items. However, you can later pull the rune out in put in a new one, or use your old run in a new weapon, so that old magic can be recycled. It gets even better, the book outlines a dwarven technique for destroying old magic items, and using the materials to make NEW ones at no extra magic cost!! However, the danger is very great, making the process a careful choice instead of a no brainer.

The next part adds a few new magic weapon abilities, and talks about making prostetics, more of flavor things then game concepts but interesting to add depth to the dwarf community. Then it goes on to describe dwarven artefacts, vessels holding old dwarven souls. The book goes into great detail about them, and while not usually interesting for PCs, they can create great adventure hooks for dms. Then there are a few new dwarven spells, mainly to assist with mining, and forging.

The Dwarven Religion section outlines dwarven gods and religious practices, in enough detail to allow any fighter dwarf up to the clerical ones to have more to say than I worship Kord. It also gives 3 new dwarf domains.

Next is everything you need to know about mining, smelting, and forging. Whether for background or the actual game, this is all you need to set up a mining business in the campaign. It also gives some new mined materials and what they can do for weapons and armor.

The next section is a selection of underground beasts dwarves often encounter and use as beasts of burden or animal compansions.

Finally, the book contains some information on dwarven strongholds, and the commanders that would command it.

The dwarven magic and dwarven weapons are what really sold me, I thought they were elegantly done, and definately gives some uniqueness to the dwarven culture. PCs get access to new Prcs, feats, special tactics, a new powerful form of magic, and the ability to recycle some of their old magic. Dms get new insight to the dwarven culture, especially mining and religion, and now have the tools to turn dwarven smiths from hammerheads to magic workers.

This was my 2nd favorite book of the 4 I'm reviewing, and I highly recommend it for more dwarfness in your campaign.

 

[Stalker0]

I'll have to disagree still Neo, but maybe I wasn't extrememly clear about why I think its so overpowered.

The druid is it is now with the MOTW wildshape is preety well balanced with the other classes. I've never heard anyone say the druid is weak compared to the other classes.

So with that assumption, we now give the Druid the ability to wildshape into practically any form it wishes (which it just about can at high levels with the Quint Druid rules). That ability is extrememly powerful in itself.

Now let's up the ante even further, give the druid not just the extraordinary abilities of those forms, but by the Quint Druid rules give them the supernatural and spell-like abilities of practically ANY form in the book.

I have not playtested this new Druid I admit, and theory can only take you so far. But when theory points to an extreme imbalance in power such as this one, I believe the conclusion is secure.

 

[Eternalknight]

I have Wizard, Fighter, Dwarf and Monk, and I love these books to little bits. They remind me a lot of the "Complete" books from 2nd edition. Needless to say, they are by far better than the WotC splatbooks, and are probably my favourite d20 product released to date (well, until Mongoose release Lone Wolf that is!)

 

[Neo]

I'll have to disagree still Neo, but maybe I wasn't extrememly clear about why I think its so overpowered.

The druid is it is now with the MOTW wildshape is preety well balanced with the other classes. I've never heard anyone say the druid is weak compared to the other classes.

So with that assumption, we now give the Druid the ability to wildshape into practically any form it wishes (which it just about can at high levels with the Quint Druid rules). That ability is extrememly powerful in itself.

Now let's up the ante even further, give the druid not just the extraordinary abilities of those forms, but by the Quint Druid rules give them the supernatural and spell-like abilities of practically ANY form in the book.

I have not playtested this new Druid I admit, and theory can only take you so far. But when theory points to an extreme imbalance in power such as this one, I believe the conclusion is secure.

Hi Stalker0

trust me they aren't over powering, I'll explain.
If you consider the Druid has to be 13th level to gain all a creatures Supernatural and other abilities and even then if you wanted to turn into the best form they can get the dragon form the druid can only assume the form of a dragon whose CR is equal to or less than one half the characters druid levels. So even for a 20th level druid the best he can attain is the form of a Young to juvenile age dragon, which is following the Core rulebook an appropriate encounter for a Party of 8th level adventurers. following this the 20th level druid becoming a CR10 dragon has just made himself significantly weaker than a recommended challenge for his level so supernatural abilities or no he isn;t exactly gaining anything powerwise that by his existing level he shouldn't already significantly exceed.

So as you can see if anything his power is reduced, not increased.

Like I said the info wasn't just written and printed, it really was playtested, and put through it's paces.

A druid who walks the path of a shapeshifter does not just get the supernatural abilities and so forth he must be a certain level, and other necessary prerequisites for the form he wishes to assume. The forms available are only available at a time when they kame sense and the kind of creature within each form is limited in CR according to what the druids level is and as such he will never be able to assume a form of a creature more powerful than he would be facing at the level he is at, it will always be a weaker creature. As a result the form they can assume never grants vast power ever, because the druid can never assume the form of anything that would uppset the ECL of what the group would otherwise be facing so as you can see your conclusion is erroneous, and I hope I have restored your faith in this chapter.

If you doubt the validity of what I have explained, put it to the test yourself, take a druid of varying levels through the possible forms he can assume and note the points at which he can use the forms extraordinary powers and supernatural powers etc... and note the Cr of the creature possible. Then work out the ECL for a group of the lvel the drouid is in order to find out the CR of the creatures your party would be facing, and in you will see the balance is never upset far from it.

 

[Stalker0]

Q Elf

I got the Quint Elf book mainly for teh same reason as the Quint Dwarf, I wanted to give elf the respect they were do. And the book does this well.

The book contains character concepts and 11 Prcs*.

In the tricks of the elves, there's an elven ability to let a concoction "age." This takes a long time, and isn't as good for PCs, but its good for buying from NPCs and is one good way to increase the power of alchemy when at high levels the concoctions power isn't as attractive.There's also some herbalist concoctions that elves know, that give them some some for knowledge of nature. The coolest tricks are the archery trick shots, many of them very good for sniping. The animal traning section is similar to MOTW, but includes some new tricks, and demonstrates how to train attitudes, like making a warhorse, or getting an animal to carry a rider. A very cool ability however is imprinting, which gives an animal bonuses and allows it to advance with its master, kind of a different form of animal friendship. Its an interesting and unique way for a character who wants to have even a closer bond with their animal. Finally, there are a few elven group tactics they use to ambuse their enemies which are great for packs of PC elves or for NPC elves.

The feats did not impress me very much. Many are too weak or too strong, especially the metamagic ones. However, there are some gems in the trove that may be nice to use for many elven characters.

In the tools section, there's some rules for creating a special elven masterwork weapon, which is superior to normal masterwork, and a nice way to let elven craftmen get some respect. There are some neat new kinds of arrows, and some nice new weapons as well as lighter armors. It continues on to explain several new alchemical compounds that elven can make, some of which are nice new things to adds to a parties arsenal.

Next come the subraces section, and like the dwarf ones include some background info for players to use with them. However, many of the subraces include ECL mods, which personally I don't like, but those who want more powerful elves may enjoy.

Next comes the elven magic section, which I thought wasn't very well done. Charms give the ability to give items a one time use of a spell, but the cost in xp is pathetically low, making scrolls and other magic items almost obsolete in some cases. You can even enchant an animal, which gives it a spell-like ability at will for a whole day!! While I think the ideas are interesting and unique, but they are very overpowered by their weak costs. Next comes shaping, which allows you to construct buildings at less cost. This one is interesting and cool, and also is much more balanced. High Magic is a very cool idea. Basically it allows you to sacrifice Con for extra spells, or for powerful effects. But the Con can't be magically healed so its a drawback. High magic can also be used in rituals with other elvens. These rituals are powerful (based on some of new feats), but they are also very dangerious, and can give a PC Elf a chance to do some very cool things. Unfortunately, high magic by the book takes a long, LONG time to learn and so may be out of PC hands.

In the secrets of the elves, it talks about the elven language, and gives elves the ability to send inneudo to other elves unnoticed, even by non-elfs that speak elvish!! Also, the chapter has some cool new uses for elven tranch, allowing you to send dreams, get visions, etc. Then it gets into fighting styles, the well known Bladesong and Bladedance styles, which are extrememly cool for elven fighters. Again, the training is long though, so often its better for NPCs.

Next, by the author's own admision, is the best section of the book, the aerial combat section. This gives detailed rules on dueling it out in teh sky, and is perfect for elves and non-elves alike. Its a simple not detailed system of attacks, and spellcasting, and is a great reason to get the book.

Finally, the book details elven strongholds.

This book is good for Elven players who want some more style to their fighting and magic, as well as make elvish items more...elvish. Dms will get to use high magic in their campaigns and the aerial combat system is a way to take your combats to the third dimension. While this was my least favorite of the 4 books I've reviewed, it is a still a good book for elf lovers.

That's teh end of my reviews, please submit your own reviews as I'm only one voice and I want to get as many opinions as possible.