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Revised DR
- Thread starter IceBear
- Start date
kigmatzomat
Legend
Black Knight Irios said:Something that is really bothering me, is the fact that even if I have a weapon made of nearly any material I can imagine, I still don't know which one to use.
Players should already have to deal with that. "Are these fiends vulnerable to lightning or is it cold?" "Is this undead vulnerable to sunlight?"
There's a knowledge skill in my game called "Bestiary." It allows you to identify the tactics and weaknesses of creatures that can kill you. It knows nothing of squirrels, mice, harmless fungus, or pretty flowers. It doesn't tell you how long it lives or how it mates (unless that involves killing something in the process, that is). It might tell you what it will/won't eat if it is relevant (i.e. rust monsters & bulettes). It won't tell you which parts are worth money or can be used as magic items.
It helps you kill things that will try to kill you. While cross-class for most, it is a handy thing to have. The mage has it at a high level and her first action is always to try and identify the beast and yell out the best "first-contact" advice she can. (e.g. "Use lightning!" "They hate all light!" and the ever popular "Don't look in its eyes!")
Falanor said:Actually that's incorrect. If you would look at the Pit Fiend's new stats, you'd notice that it isn't anything but a 15. If you can't penetrate that then you just ain't tryin'.
The issue is not simply whether or not you can "penetrate" a creature's DR. You actually have to do enough damage in spite of the DR to have a chance of defeating the creature. If I can do 16 points of damage, I can penetrate the pit fiend's DR. Does that mean I have a chance in hell against it in a fight?
And according to Andy Collins this is considered "mighty", and how it keeps DR revised from being a hose job top fighters.
It is a hose job to fighters, or at least, to fighters who don't have the proper weaponry. Again, the question "Can the fighter do any damage at all to the creature without the proper material weapon?" is the wrong question. The question should be, "Can the fighter do enough damage to have a chance of killing the creature before it kills him?" Or perhaps, "Can the fighter do enough damage to not be totally insignificant in the face of what the spellcasters are doing?"
Say I'm a fighter who does 20 points of damage per hit. That's 80 points per round with four attacks. By the current rules, I have a chance to kill the pit fiend before it kills me. By the revised DR rules, I'll be doing 20 points per round to the pit fiend instead of 80. The pit fiend would have me for lunch. My only chance is to pull out my cold iron weapon, or whatever it is that bypasses the pit fiend's DR.
Also, if I'm hacking at the pit fiend for 80 damage a round, and the party wizard blasts it for 100 damage, I'm holding up pretty well. If I'm doing 20 damage a round and the wizard is blasting it for 100, I'm basically irrelevant. Again, my only chance is the weapon that bypasses the DR.
Exactly how? What, do they have a Tuesday plan action as opposed to a Wedensday plan of action? If a party doesn't know how one day is going to be different from the next, then its going to be a bit difficult to actually do this.
No it's not. The party will simply stock up on all the different kinds of weapons. Bags of Holding are cheap, silver weapons are cheap, cold iron weapons are cheap, etc. Maybe they've never run into a werewolf - but they'll want to be prepared just in case they do.
My group's DM doesn't get us lost in the woods very often - but we always take extra supplies just in case.
Which is making the assumption that everyone knows how to defeat every beast. Just cause one person figured it out doesn't mean everyone instantly knows it as well. Sure there could be old wives tales about a Goblin being immune to silver on a Saturday at high noon, but that doesn't mean its true. As it is, knowledge about higher CR critters is supposed to be more difficult to attain, seeing as only certain people ever meet them and survive. Unless on your world there is a 'Daily Inquisitor' where adventurers report in and talk about the DR of the day, this really doesn't happen.
That's up to you as a DM. If you won't let your players buy silver weapons, or you invent creatures that can only be hit by holy golden blades covered with cheese, then you're making a conscious decision to make the fighters in the party less useful relative to the spellcasters. If the fighters can't do enough damage to make a difference in the fight, all they can do is be meat shields for the spellcasters, who can do enough damage to take the critters down. Playing a meat shield is not a lot of fun, and if that situation comes up often enough, you'll probably find that your fighters simply won't enjoy the game anymore. Not a desirable outcome for anyone concerned.
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Simulacrum
First Post
blablabla.....cry me river, write it in a book. sell it to someone who cares, really.
As if the game was just about bashing fiends & monsters ad infinitum and always winning in the process....
As if the game was just about bashing fiends & monsters ad infinitum and always winning in the process....
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Fenes 2 said:Seems we have the two opposite factions here. One faction expects the DM to regularily throw the "stupid DR creature of the week" against the party, and expects the party to prepare for any and all stupid DR cases after a few levels, ending up with a "haversack of the weapon of the day" mentality.
Actually, to be more specific...
i feel the party IN CHARACTER would and SHOULD as part of common sense in an uncommon environment indeed work to have the haversack of exotic weapons or HEW.
They **should** do this for all the same reasons they carry vials of holy water, potions of cure disease and potions of slow poiison and so on... which is to say not because they KNOW there will be challenges that demand these in tomorrow's specific battle or because the are sure it will be needed but rather because they don't know that it wont be and it might be the difference between life and death if they are unprepared. For the same reason there is a first aid kit two doors down here at the office.
The beauty is... like the first aid kit, relative to other adventurer expenses...things like silvered weapons are cheap after just a couple of levels.
As for the Dm side, i don't think every Gm will buy into this mindset however i definitely think that it will be very easy for a GM to buy into "DR should be hitting them" and after the PCs have their HEW it will become necessary to create newer wierder requirements in order to maintain this notion of "DR is necessary" or that balance requires some DR to work against the party.
The Gm case is easily handled, after enough of the silliness the players will not be able to hold in their laughter.
The player side is tougher because it means those players who just decide to embrace the nonsense and get their HEW off the shelf like every other fighter will be fine, while those who stick to their character concepts will be harmed.
That is the exact opposite of how i want the rules to select players to harm.
YMMV
[/B][/QUOTE]
The character doesn't know "because if we cover all of them the Gm will just invent more anyway because he has prejudged DR to be a middle ground."
It makes just as much common sense for a fighter to fill an HEW before heading into his uncommon setting. It makes no sense for him to leave the life or death risk open.
to be precise.. i did not say this part. You just made it up.
it really must be easy to keep arguing points you make up for others to have said.
As i stated CLEARLY before... it makes good common sense from the character perspective to be so prepared.
Do you shake your head and go tsk tsk when your players buy rope in their character's inventory?
if this half-coked rule gets put it, in wont affect my games at all because i wont use it.
But if it was in play, even if i never through DR creatures at the gang, i would expect the PCs to run their character appropriately and that would include intelligent character buying intelligent supplies... and that means prophylactic and curativepurchases for things such as poisons and diseases and drains and climbing and even, yes, horrible as it may sound to those wanting to hoist dr onto some pedestal... anti-dr weaponry.
If the character is cognizant enough to plan for a smaller set of the possibilities... maybe one or two exotics... but could prepare for the others, why is it reasonable to assume he shouldn't? Why should i choose between carrying some holy water, a silver weapon OR a blunt weapon when i can do all three? Why should i KNOWINGLY leave myself open to more problems in life ordeath situations than necessary?Shalewind said:
I believe DR to be a middle ground. Some people (read specialized) can penetrate it. Different monsters, different PCs. The rest of the group cannot. This doesn't change effectiveness. It certainly doesn't mean the other PCs can't hurt the baddie (reduced DRs...) People in this world (realisticly) would carry a single (maybe two) devoted weapons and maybe the ocassional (silver, holy, etc...) weapon for those rare "Oh #%#^!" situations. This seems like a far more real scenario than the "golf bag effect".
The character doesn't know "because if we cover all of them the Gm will just invent more anyway because he has prejudged DR to be a middle ground."
More importantly every smart character. It makes common sense nowadays for me to take a first aid kit and reasonable materials (maybe a snake bite kit) when heading into areas where these MIGHT be a danager to my life and limb if i dont have them.Shalewind said:
Petrosian, you say that the new materials will only encourage this "golf bag" behavior. That every "smart" gamer will have to use this option
It makes just as much common sense for a fighter to fill an HEW before heading into his uncommon setting. It makes no sense for him to leave the life or death risk open.
Just for the record, there you go again making things up for other people to have said.Shalewind said:
because it's the only way to be powerful enough to be effective in every situation.
to be precise.. i did not say this part. You just made it up.
it really must be easy to keep arguing points you make up for others to have said.
As i stated CLEARLY before... it makes good common sense from the character perspective to be so prepared.
Do you shake your head and go tsk tsk when your players buy rope in their character's inventory?
the high and mighty act is cool. it would play better however if you did not start it off by inventing the opposing position.Shalewind said:
Well, if that is the style of play you use. I am sorry. I conceed your point to you. If your DM throws the, what was is?, "slahing weapon lathered with wolvebane oil and blessed by a druid of Boccob" every week, I feel very very sorry for you. I would never stand to play in such a world. The world I play in would never have a DM throwing a minor rules point at us every week just to drive home the fact that we don't look like fantasy heroes... There are far better ways for a DM to make challenging encounters on a regular basis.
if this half-coked rule gets put it, in wont affect my games at all because i wont use it.
But if it was in play, even if i never through DR creatures at the gang, i would expect the PCs to run their character appropriately and that would include intelligent character buying intelligent supplies... and that means prophylactic and curativepurchases for things such as poisons and diseases and drains and climbing and even, yes, horrible as it may sound to those wanting to hoist dr onto some pedestal... anti-dr weaponry.
I will only discuss what the changes might do. Here are some thoughts.
I think the DR change can help focus a game. If the party has invested in holysilver, then the DM might be more inclined to keep throwing demons in the game. This can lead to the group being "demon slayers" and not just adventurers.
On the other hand, every DM throws different creatures in once in while. At higher levels, those creatures have a good chance of having DR. If the revision is 25 different materials/magic/damage types then the party will have a problem. Unless you have the "golf bag" to have a good chance of getting by the DR, you will have to do lots of damage. Only the THF has a good chance of doing that. Since it is easier to get arrows than melee weapons, this situation puts the most burden on the TWF fighter.
The less often this happens the less of a problem it will be. So how often should the DM shuffle up the monster types? Judging from City of the Spider Queen, every third combat. That is lot: enough to make problems with a "lots of different DRs" revision.
If the revision is only a few different types of DR, and those types are separate by type (ie: undead only have DR blunt and/or magic) this will be less of a problem. Then when the DM throws a different creature in for variety, the party has a good chance having something (extra weapon or spell) that can help them out. Then it is more of a flavor, not just screwing fighters.
It could be really bad, or it could be a nice change.
I think the DR change can help focus a game. If the party has invested in holysilver, then the DM might be more inclined to keep throwing demons in the game. This can lead to the group being "demon slayers" and not just adventurers.
On the other hand, every DM throws different creatures in once in while. At higher levels, those creatures have a good chance of having DR. If the revision is 25 different materials/magic/damage types then the party will have a problem. Unless you have the "golf bag" to have a good chance of getting by the DR, you will have to do lots of damage. Only the THF has a good chance of doing that. Since it is easier to get arrows than melee weapons, this situation puts the most burden on the TWF fighter.
The less often this happens the less of a problem it will be. So how often should the DM shuffle up the monster types? Judging from City of the Spider Queen, every third combat. That is lot: enough to make problems with a "lots of different DRs" revision.
If the revision is only a few different types of DR, and those types are separate by type (ie: undead only have DR blunt and/or magic) this will be less of a problem. Then when the DM throws a different creature in for variety, the party has a good chance having something (extra weapon or spell) that can help them out. Then it is more of a flavor, not just screwing fighters.
It could be really bad, or it could be a nice change.
Youve got to be kidding....
On DR: I dont think its going to be some incredibly complex formula to figure out a creature's revised DR. Like if it was a fiend, the material will be holysilver or silver. So we can assume:
Lemure: DR 5/silver (as written in MM)
Imp: DR 5/silver (as written)
Osyluth: DR 5/silver (changed +1 to silver)
Kyton: DR 10/holysilver
Hellcat: DR 10/holysilver
Barbazu: DR 5/silver
Erinyes: DR 5/silver
Hamatula: DR 5/silver
Cornugon: DR 10/holysilver
Gelugon: DR 10/holysilver
Pit Fiend: DR 15/holysilver
So, 5 or 10 damage reduction = 5
20 damage reduction = 10
25 or higher = 15
+1 or silver = silver
+2 or higher = holysilver
Note, this is just something I made in a couple minutes, the point being Im sure in one of the 3 revised books they will go into "Converting DR" from 3e to 3.5e. I'm equally sure it wont be difficult.
On GMW: Please. Dont insult anyone here, GMW is so much more than a spell to bypass DR. It makes archers sick, prevents fighters from needing any enhancements beyond +1 and sure striking, and lasts way too long.
On Cheap: Oh please. Whats your golfbag going to have? A +1 version of every material weapon? Then youll just about be able to afford +1 Armor and some potions. Its a game of choices, why dont you start statting up some fighters who buy HHH and a bunch of different weapons from different materials. It just wont fly. You might have 2 decent magic weapons, and a few masterwork versions, but at high levels youre probably better off having one maxed magic weapon with mods and a decent alternate, plus a ranged weapon. I dont think thats much more than people have now.
On Low DR: Whats the point? Are you kidding? You are arguing both sides of the argument. Either DR is so low that it doesnt matter to peasants (and therefore fighters) so you just use a couple weapons and suck up the few points per round, OR its a big pain and everyone will need a golf bag. Think of it like this, any +5 weapon essentially "negates" 5 DR. So your 20th level fighter has a +5 Flaming Keen Longsword. Its made out of Cold Iron lets say. You gonna switch to your golfbag to fight lyncanthropes, or accept a few points of damage less per round? If you accept the damage, that monsters power is keeping him alive a little longer, especially if its a werewolf with 15 class levels or something. See how the DR means something? In regular play, you just negate his DR because you have a magic weapon. And really, most characters get a magic weapon of appropriate level to deal with the monsters because DMs dont want to be too "hard" on the players. You wont have to worry "Oh my players havent persued silver weapons, maybe they cant take this werewolf" because his DR isnt too powerful, it will aid him in the fight, and the characters may afterward think about looking up some ways to fight lyncanthropes more effectively, but thats about it.
On How many Materials: I said we only know about 2. These are actually referred to in the phb and MM now, they just dont come into play much. What other materials? Well adamantine, mythril, and dark wood are already referred to. Then theres the differentiation between slashing/piercing/blunt weapons. Theres a lot of room for different weapons even if the only actually add cold iron, silver, and holysilver. Plus theres the subject of "blessed weapons". I think this makes for plenty of options, and I think the whole golfbag scenario is still negated by PC wealth per level.
As far as your fantasy heroes, those swords are all at least minor artifacts. Who knows what artifacts will look like in 3.5? Regardless they are powerful enough weapons to still knock the crap out of things even if they do have DR. DR is an ability that can defray not having a huge hit die for some creatures, and coupled with regeneration or fast healing is still powerful.
As far as running away if you dont have the right material? Yeah right. Im a 10th level fighter and get caught up in a den of wererats. Am I gonna run away with my +2 flaming greatsword or start taking names? Yeah, its not silver, but hopefully Im not alone. I may not take the spotlight this fight, but so WHAT. Groups that work as a team are always more successful than those made up of power-gamers looking to tweak out their characters. And guess which one most resembles fantasy novels?
As I said earlier, you arent forced to buy anything. If you are the DM, use the SRD as you please and change what you like. No one is going to force you to buy anything. If you are a player, the DMs rules go. I cant think of many dms that would let a fighter run around with a golfbag (or sack as the case may be). Suck it up, now there are things to be afraid of besides will saves.
Technik
On DR: I dont think its going to be some incredibly complex formula to figure out a creature's revised DR. Like if it was a fiend, the material will be holysilver or silver. So we can assume:
Lemure: DR 5/silver (as written in MM)
Imp: DR 5/silver (as written)
Osyluth: DR 5/silver (changed +1 to silver)
Kyton: DR 10/holysilver
Hellcat: DR 10/holysilver
Barbazu: DR 5/silver
Erinyes: DR 5/silver
Hamatula: DR 5/silver
Cornugon: DR 10/holysilver
Gelugon: DR 10/holysilver
Pit Fiend: DR 15/holysilver
So, 5 or 10 damage reduction = 5
20 damage reduction = 10
25 or higher = 15
+1 or silver = silver
+2 or higher = holysilver
Note, this is just something I made in a couple minutes, the point being Im sure in one of the 3 revised books they will go into "Converting DR" from 3e to 3.5e. I'm equally sure it wont be difficult.
On GMW: Please. Dont insult anyone here, GMW is so much more than a spell to bypass DR. It makes archers sick, prevents fighters from needing any enhancements beyond +1 and sure striking, and lasts way too long.
On Cheap: Oh please. Whats your golfbag going to have? A +1 version of every material weapon? Then youll just about be able to afford +1 Armor and some potions. Its a game of choices, why dont you start statting up some fighters who buy HHH and a bunch of different weapons from different materials. It just wont fly. You might have 2 decent magic weapons, and a few masterwork versions, but at high levels youre probably better off having one maxed magic weapon with mods and a decent alternate, plus a ranged weapon. I dont think thats much more than people have now.
On Low DR: Whats the point? Are you kidding? You are arguing both sides of the argument. Either DR is so low that it doesnt matter to peasants (and therefore fighters) so you just use a couple weapons and suck up the few points per round, OR its a big pain and everyone will need a golf bag. Think of it like this, any +5 weapon essentially "negates" 5 DR. So your 20th level fighter has a +5 Flaming Keen Longsword. Its made out of Cold Iron lets say. You gonna switch to your golfbag to fight lyncanthropes, or accept a few points of damage less per round? If you accept the damage, that monsters power is keeping him alive a little longer, especially if its a werewolf with 15 class levels or something. See how the DR means something? In regular play, you just negate his DR because you have a magic weapon. And really, most characters get a magic weapon of appropriate level to deal with the monsters because DMs dont want to be too "hard" on the players. You wont have to worry "Oh my players havent persued silver weapons, maybe they cant take this werewolf" because his DR isnt too powerful, it will aid him in the fight, and the characters may afterward think about looking up some ways to fight lyncanthropes more effectively, but thats about it.
On How many Materials: I said we only know about 2. These are actually referred to in the phb and MM now, they just dont come into play much. What other materials? Well adamantine, mythril, and dark wood are already referred to. Then theres the differentiation between slashing/piercing/blunt weapons. Theres a lot of room for different weapons even if the only actually add cold iron, silver, and holysilver. Plus theres the subject of "blessed weapons". I think this makes for plenty of options, and I think the whole golfbag scenario is still negated by PC wealth per level.
As far as your fantasy heroes, those swords are all at least minor artifacts. Who knows what artifacts will look like in 3.5? Regardless they are powerful enough weapons to still knock the crap out of things even if they do have DR. DR is an ability that can defray not having a huge hit die for some creatures, and coupled with regeneration or fast healing is still powerful.
As far as running away if you dont have the right material? Yeah right. Im a 10th level fighter and get caught up in a den of wererats. Am I gonna run away with my +2 flaming greatsword or start taking names? Yeah, its not silver, but hopefully Im not alone. I may not take the spotlight this fight, but so WHAT. Groups that work as a team are always more successful than those made up of power-gamers looking to tweak out their characters. And guess which one most resembles fantasy novels?
As I said earlier, you arent forced to buy anything. If you are the DM, use the SRD as you please and change what you like. No one is going to force you to buy anything. If you are a player, the DMs rules go. I cant think of many dms that would let a fighter run around with a golfbag (or sack as the case may be). Suck it up, now there are things to be afraid of besides will saves.
Technik
[/B][/QUOTE]
My gangs knows that if they need to climb rope might be helpful. They buy some rope.
My gang knows some beasties use poison and that poison can be bad. They buy things to coutner poisons including but not limited to potions and the like.
My gang knows somethings breath fire ot use fire as a weapon... they buy anti-fire stuff.
my gang knows some things ignore or are less affected by non-blunt weapons... they make sure they have some blunt weapons.
etc...etc...etc...
purchasing small numbers of odd things that you might need is , well, common sense. For this to extend to silvered weapons and cold iron maces... is just a sign of what passes common sense in an uncommon world.
slow down and actually read the posts you want to jump all over. it might save some embarrassment.
thats the key.
It makes sense once you know some of them are true to try and be prepared. That means adding to your inventory a whole lot of crap that will probably ever see the light of day.
no one, and specifically not me, has said the HEW will contain only the right things. But, if you stop the knee from jerking long enough, you will realize that having it also contain a bunch of junk thats just old wives tales and merchants advantage taking is just a further example of how bad it can get.
That doesnt seem to be stopping anyone from DISAGREEING with the views which are opposed. That doesn't seem to be stopping anyone who likes the proposed change.
Did you go post to those who came in and said "this is cool i like it" that they shouldn't rush to judgement?
or is "sit back and wait" only appropriate somehow for dissenters?
Nice paragraph but what does everything after the incorrect have to do with my point? The rest of your paragraph seems to be dealing with how fair and balanced the new DR lesser scale is... yet i have not complained about its balance at all.Falanor said:
"The current rules do NOT make that a reality and the new rules do little if anything at all to cover it." -- Petrosian
Actually that's incorrect. If you would look at the Pit Fiend's new stats, you'd notice that it isn't anything but a 15. If you can't penetrate that then you just ain't tryin'. And according to Andy Collins this is considered "mighty", and how it keeps DR revised from being a hose job top fighters. After all, the Iron Golem won't have his +3/50 DR anymore. Sure it'll be tough to beat 'em, but it should have been that way to begin with.
OK since you ask... i will make these OBVIOUS examples of high level quixotic planning known to you.Falanor said:
"An intelligent fighter, and intelligent party, will prepare not for what they are CERTAIN is ahead of them but also for those things that they might encounter." -- Petrosian
Exactly how? What, do they have a Tuesday plan action as opposed to a Wedensday plan of action? If a party doesn't know how one day is going to be different from the next, then its going to be a bit difficult to actually do this.
My gangs knows that if they need to climb rope might be helpful. They buy some rope.
My gang knows some beasties use poison and that poison can be bad. They buy things to coutner poisons including but not limited to potions and the like.
My gang knows somethings breath fire ot use fire as a weapon... they buy anti-fire stuff.
my gang knows some things ignore or are less affected by non-blunt weapons... they make sure they have some blunt weapons.
etc...etc...etc...
purchasing small numbers of odd things that you might need is , well, common sense. For this to extend to silvered weapons and cold iron maces... is just a sign of what passes common sense in an uncommon world.
i made no such assumption. You will even note, if you read closely, that i included things like copper plated weapons and even noted that these might be the merchant's idea.Falanor said:
Which is making the assumption that everyone knows how to defeat every beast. Just cause one person figured it out doesn't mean everyone instantly knows it as well.
slow down and actually read the posts you want to jump all over. it might save some embarrassment.
There is no daily inquisitor. There is also not the GM stomping in with 'you read the MM so now you have to pretend your character knows nothing" either. There isn't a world of npcs who have lived for generations dealing with these threats who remain so completely ignorant of them so that the Gm can fristrate the players ability to have their characters actually understand their world.Falanor said:
Sure there could be old wives tales about a Goblin being immune to silver on a Saturday at high noon, but that doesn't mean its true. As it is, knowledge about higher CR critters is supposed to be more difficult to attain, seeing as only certain people ever meet them and survive. Unless on your world there is a 'Daily Inquisitor' where adventurers report in and talk about the DR of the day, this really doesn't happen.
He had them not because he knew he was going against a MUMMY but because he bleieved in dark forces and the tales which told him these were sometimes effective.Falanor said:
And remember that none of them worked? Ever hear of Holy Symbols working something on a Mummy in ancient lore? No, you got a curse, treasure, and not much else. So why did he have all the Holy Symbols? What, did he expect to run into a Vampire?
thats the key.
It makes sense once you know some of them are true to try and be prepared. That means adding to your inventory a whole lot of crap that will probably ever see the light of day.
no one, and specifically not me, has said the HEW will contain only the right things. But, if you stop the knee from jerking long enough, you will realize that having it also contain a bunch of junk thats just old wives tales and merchants advantage taking is just a further example of how bad it can get.
Falanor said:
I think what Shalewind is tryin to get across with his 'big picture' statement is that we don't know what everything is going to be like so its rather fallacious.
That doesnt seem to be stopping anyone from DISAGREEING with the views which are opposed. That doesn't seem to be stopping anyone who likes the proposed change.
Did you go post to those who came in and said "this is cool i like it" that they shouldn't rush to judgement?
or is "sit back and wait" only appropriate somehow for dissenters?
Re: Youve got to be kidding....
So your answer to the golf bag of weaponry is simply to have the DM metagame it out of existence.
Don't you think that, if a rules change requires some pretty insane metagaming on the part of the DM ("No, you can't find weapons made out of silver or iron, sorry.") to deal with the consequences of it, that's pretty clear evidence that it's a bad rules change to begin with?
Technik4 said:I cant think of many dms that would let a fighter run around with a golfbag (or sack as the case may be). Suck it up, now there are things to be afraid of besides will saves.
So your answer to the golf bag of weaponry is simply to have the DM metagame it out of existence.
Don't you think that, if a rules change requires some pretty insane metagaming on the part of the DM ("No, you can't find weapons made out of silver or iron, sorry.") to deal with the consequences of it, that's pretty clear evidence that it's a bad rules change to begin with?
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