D&D 5E Revised Ranger Play Report... (level 3 to 4, beastmaster)

[nswanson27]

Overall awesome report. Very interesting info on the pet dynamics. I think I'm in the middle for what the DM reported. On the one hand, yes, I agree that could get very annoying, and should be scoped somehow. But on the other hand, I see one intent of this to plan ahead on exploring a cave, castle, whatever, and knowing some tactical info on baddies coming up.
So, if they are taking a long rest (in which certain classes can adjust their spell lists), they have tangible information to plan against. And the DM should be able to know SOME things about what's to come, otherwise that DM needs to do a better job of planning the adventure.
Maybe they could soften the skill to be something like where they could ask the question, "Are there humanoids that are resistance/immune to charm/fear in this area?". If so, the wizard can adjust spell list on long rest before diving in.

 

[Horwath]

Primeval awareness tells you if any of your enemies are in radius and what are they.

By any, I read the total of two that you can have at lvl6.

So it would read humanoids, but humanoids as broad group, no definition of human,elf,orc,etc...

if you had humanoids and aberations, it would detect if you had any of those two, not subclasses of any.

 

[iserith]

Primeval awareness tells you if any of your enemies are in radius and what are they.

By any, I read the total of two that you can have at lvl6.

So it would read humanoids, but humanoids as broad group, no definition of human,elf,orc,etc...

if you had humanoids and aberations, it would detect if you had any of those two, not subclasses of any.

I think that's fair. Favored Enemy nor Primeval Awareness do not refer to Tags, just Type. That could potentially solve the issues some DMs are reporting and may be the intent of the rule.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

No iserith, I do not think that the problem is really that the DM set up a challenge that is easily circumvented by an apprentice-tier class feature. You see, you have built a circular argument. The question is, "should that power be an apprentice-tier class feature?" You have already assumed it should. Thus, for you, the problem is that a DM set up a challenge easily circumvented by an apprentice-tier class feature. I don't think that the power should be an apprentice-tier class feature in the first place. It is too disruptive. I mean, compare this "apprentice-tier" class feature to a spell that the ranger only gets at 13th level (though some other casters can cast the spell at 7th level). Locate Creature. That spell only gives you the direction to one specific creature within 1,000 feet of you. That assumes that the creature isn't on the other end of a body of running water at least 10 feet wide. That also assumes that you have seen what you are trying to locate up close and personally at some point in time in your life. In the face of that spell, I am forced to conclude that Primal Awareness is too potent as written. Now, I would be ok with it, if the DM was given more wiggle room to adjudicate its use. As written though, I'm forced to disagree with your premise. This isn't an "apprentice-tier" feature. This is an incredibly powerful feature being, mistakenly, given out at apprentice-tier. And yes, I do see that as a problem...

 

[iserith]

No iserith, I do not think that the problem is really that the DM set up a challenge that is easily circumvented by an apprentice-tier class feature. You see, you have built a circular argument. The question is, "should that power be an apprentice-tier class feature?" You have already assumed it should. Thus, for you, the problem is that a DM set up a challenge easily circumvented by an apprentice-tier class feature. I don't think that the power should be an apprentice-tier class feature in the first place. It is too disruptive. I mean, compare this "apprentice-tier" class feature to a spell that the ranger only gets at 13th level (though some other casters can cast the spell at 7th level). Locate Creature. That spell only gives you the direction to one specific creature within 1,000 feet of you. That assumes that the creature isn't on the other end of a body of running water at least 10 feet wide. That also assumes that you have seen what you are trying to locate up close and personally at some point in time in your life. In the face of that spell, I am forced to conclude that Primal Awareness is too potent as written. Now, I would be ok with it, if the DM was given more wiggle room to adjudicate its use. As written though, I'm forced to disagree with your premise. This isn't an "apprentice-tier" feature. This is an incredibly powerful feature being, mistakenly, given out at apprentice-tier. And yes, I do see that as a problem...

LOL, why isn't the argument that the 4th-level spell Locate Creature is underpowered? This is just getting silly now.

 

[pukunui]

Fortunately, this iteration of the revised ranger is still in playtest mode, and the devs have said they deliberately made it overpowered so they could fine tune it re: our feedback. Hopefully the new primeval awareness will get sorted out by the time the new ranger is released in print.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Good call, Horwath. On closer inspection, I don't see anything in the power which justifies knowledge about the specific type of creature you sense beyond "humanoid." Still, even with that caveat, there are many elements of the power as written which could become disruptive. Automatically knowing the number, direction, and distance of every favored enemy in 5 miles is more than enough to create a headache. I agree with nswanson27, it must reveal something. I just think it is automatically revealing too much as written. Using it to focus on a specific visible location, such as a fort, to find out how many favored enemies are inside it? Sure. Using it to find out if any favored enemies are in 5 miles before you set up camp? Sure. Having it spoon feed you the exact distance and direction of those enemies? I don't think that is reasonable anymore. The group can put a little more effort into finding them before making camp. Maybe some tracking checks. Whatever. I just think it is spoon-feeding too much information too easily in its current state, which is why my DM called it out right away after reading it.

 

[iserith]

Fortunately, this iteration of the revised ranger is still in playtest mode, and the devs have said they deliberately made it overpowered so they could fine tune it re: our feedback. Hopefully the new primeval awareness will get sorted out by the time the new ranger is released in print.

Could you give some explanation as to how Primeval Awareness is "overpowered?"

Are you guys playing games where tracking down a specific creature that also happens to be the ranger's favored enemy comes up a lot? And, if so, what makes it disruptive whereas including an ability check makes it no longer disruptive? (Assuming the latter is something you believe.)

Are you playing with players who are just spamming that class feature to put you on the spot to come up with what favored enemies exist within 5 miles?

 

[Cyber-Dave]

LOL, why isn't the argument that the 4th-level spell Locate Creature is underpowered? This is just getting silly now.

The argument isn't that the 4th level spell is underpowered because it isn't a part of a playtest document published in unearthed arcana. I'm sorry if you find it silly and laughable that I assume that the written rules should be looked at as the baseline of what is acceptable. I don't agree with you iserith. I'm not going to either. That is ok. My opinion isn't some infallible thing. Yours, however, isn't either. I'm adding a voice to the data being generated. Ultimately, I expect WotC to do whatever it is they do based on their own good sense and the feedback from the poll. If they are looking to contextualize the feedback from the poll further, they can look through the various forms of social media, such as this one, in which fans are depositing more detailed opinions. If the opinions found on those platforms and the polls suggest that a large portion of the community is having a similar issue to the one I anecdotally experienced, then my experience stops being anecdotal and becomes an issue that their editing process should address. I'm not sure why you are getting frustrated that my own thoughts and experiences won't align with yours. All in all, I wish you the best in your games. I just don't agree with you on this subject.

 

[iserith]

The argument isn't that the 4th level spell isn't underpowered because it isn't a part of a playtest document published in unearthed arcana.

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you saying that because it's in the PHB it can't be "underpowered?" What if they struck it from the ranger's spell list in a future iteration?

I'm not sure why you are getting frustrated that my own thoughts and experiences won't align with yours.

I'm not frustrated. I don't agree with your arguments, which have changed since the first post. If you just don't likes it, fine - I got nothing to say about that. But what you've offered as arguments against its current iteration or as solutions to the problems you perceive it has are lacking in my view. [MENTION=6801299]Horwath[/MENTION] on the other hand has provided a solid interpretation in my opinion where the types/tags are concerned which may be a viable solution to one aspect of the class feature that some complain about.