Revising n/day class features

[tjoneslo]

One of my pet peves about the D20 system is the prevelance of the feats, talents (for D20 modern), and class features which restrict their use to once per day or other arbitrary time span. It''s the fact that the character now must know about a game mechanic which interferes with my roleplaying experience. Plus I want more flexability in how I use my characters cool powers, and if I overdo it (being heroic) I can really hurt myself.

Now I don't mind the way spell casting works, as there is an in-game explination as to why the character can't cast every spell they want. The vancian casting system, the sorcerer casting system, and most spell point systems all rely upon a pool of magic points which the caster draws upon to cast spells. Plus, through the use of meta-magic feats, I can up power the spells by using more of the pool of magic.

Another mechnic I like is the Action Point system in D20 Modern (and variants in UA), which also give a pool of points to activate some talents and class features. So now I can be extra-cool several times in a row, but with a later cost.

But these mechanics won't solve the entire problem, as not all abilites are either arcane power or luck based.

One idea I came up with (and it may not be unique) is to have the class abilites cause temporary ability score damage. For example, the barbarian rage ability. This is supposed to drain the character making them weak from the huge exertion. But the ability just says you are weak and drained without any real effect. What happens if the rage does 4 points of Strength Damage and 4 points of Constitution damage, reducing this to 3/3, 2/2, 1/1 at higher levels. The rage now works multiple times per day, but the barbarian becomes a weaker and weaker figher until they can have some rest. And the character can kill themself if the really push it.

For another example, the Ranged Legerdemain ability for the Arcane Trickster would cause Dexterity damage.

Does this make any kind of sense? and what other suggestions would you have?

 

[Brain]

Interesting ideas. I think the ability damage mechanic is a bit harsh, however. Perhaps some sort of system that is like action points, but the character can choose a few different options to gain "temporary action points" which must be used in the next short while. Like maybe they can take damage (fraction of max hp) to gain a TAP, or maybe some other sacrifice.

 

[Kohbiel]

Wow, old post eh?

I don't really like the /day mechanic either, espescially in cases such as the bards perform of music, the paladins remove disease, &etc. What I've considered doing in my games is replaced the /day with progressively harder checks to do just about anything. In your raging example, a barbarian would roll 1d20+(level, abilitity bonus?, etc?) to a roll to see if the character is capable of continuing this or that action. The more often one attempts such an action /day (or just without rest maybe?) the higher the dc to do the action becomes. Of course there are penalties when one keeps attempting the same thing when it's obviously not gonna suceed (like our barbarian raging for the 40th time in one day, rolling a d20 and just hoping for a natural 20). So maybe the barbarian becomes fatuiged after attempting x DC for the y # of rages before rest. Anyone consider a mechanic such as this before, tried using it even?

Aspects vs regular play:
More random nature regarding play
higher dependancy on skill checks
less time for roleplaying, more rollplaying (probably a con for most)
much more realistic gameplay.
/day mechanic is no longer obvious to characters in roleplay (probably a boon for most gamers, esp. DM's)

 

[Arkhandus]

I'd say, impose an effect similar to fatigue after an X/day or X/week ability is used. -2 penalty each time, let's say. Applies on attack rolls, unarmed/grapple/weapon/natural weapon damage, saving throws, AC, grapple checks, skill checks, and ability checks. Cumulative with itself, so using Rage before the first penalty wears off would result in a total -4 penalty for instance. The penalty would represent some physical and mental fatigue/strain.

You might allow a Fortitude or Will save to resist gaining the penalty, but I dunno if that would be fair or not. DC of maybe 15 + the total amount of penalty that would be suffered (i.e. if the X/day ability would cause the total Strain penalty to reach -4, the DC would be 19). Type of save used might depend on the ability; if the ability is more physical in source, require a Fortitude save to avoid the penalty; if the ability is more mental or magical in source, require a Will save instead.

The duration of the penalty would be based on how many times per week or per day the ability would otherwise have been useable. 1/day = duration of 8 hours instead. 2/day = duration of 5 hours instead. 3/day = duration of 3 hours instead. 4/day = duration of 1 hour instead. 5/day = duration of 15 minutes instead. 6/day = duration of 1 minute instead. 7/day = duration of 5 rounds instead. 8/day or more = duration of 2 rounds instead. 1/week = duration of 24 hours instead. 2/week = duration of 16 hours instead. 3/week = duration of 10 hours instead. 4/week = duration of 5 hours instead. 5/week = duration of 2 hours instead. 6/week = duration of 1 hour instead. 7/week = duration of 30 minutes instead. 8/week or more = duration of 10 minutes instead.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I don't know-- I just allow anything with a daily or weekly use limit to be used again at the cost of an action point. It's usually a better option than just using them to improve die rolls, and it reflects the idea that pulling those stunts off is heroic and impressive.

I'm kinda thinking about increasing the number of action points characters get, possibly by allowing them to add their Charisma bonus every level.

 

[dvvega]

I used a mechanic during an old campaign for spell casting that allowed spell casters to overextend their casting time.

It was saving throw based, and each time you cast beyond your limits you made a saving throw modified by the number of over-extensions you had made. If you failed, you burnt out for the day and got a random roll on a magical backlash type table with the number of over-extensions factored into it.

It was a Victorian-day style campaign using 1st edition (the save was a constitution roll - roll 3d6 under your CON).

A similar mechanic could work for your per day thing. The save (Fort in 3.5 case) would start at +2, then +1, then 0 for the 3 uses per day allowed for example (or whatever modifier you think is realistic) and then start degrading after that. So let's assume you want them to make it on the first go then you could use +15/+10/+5 then it would be 0/-5/-10/-15.

This would give them a chance of using it that 4th extra time, but also limit it to good rolls. Why? Because you don't want them overdoing some of their per day abilities.

D

 

[tjoneslo]

I don't like the saving throw to activate an ability idea for two reasons. First, on a really bad day, the character may never be able to use the ability. Second, on a really good day, the characer may be able to use the ability a way overpowered number of times.

For abilities usable once per week or longer, replacing it with a "use an action point" is a reasonable substitute. It's just for abilities useable once or more per day, it may seem that the action points would disappear pretty quickly. Perhaps giving more action points would solve this problem. Along with giving more things to spend points on...

 

[Sir Brennen]

This action point solution sounds very interesting. I wonder, however, if all these abilities are equal. Take for example a 9th level Bard and 9th level Barbarian. Under the RAW, bard can use his Bardic Music Abilities 9 times per day, while the Barbarian can only Rage 3 times. Using Action points, if the Bard and Barbarian have the same number, the Barbarian can Rage as many times as the Bard can use Bardic Music. Perhaps Rage should cost 2 (or even 3 ) action points instead? Or maybe characters get a number of non-cumulative action points equal to X, where X is the number used in each x/day ability. So the bard gets 9 extra AP at 9th level, while the barbarian has only 3. That still doesn't quite feel right, but you can see where I'm going.

Also nice about this is tying it into the variant metamagic feat from UA, where metamagicking a spell can be done on the fly, but only x/times per day (I think UA is once, but there when this variant originally appeared, it was 3 times per day.) So now, metamagic'd spells are done using an action point. Sweet.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I don't mind the ability damage idea, but it can be a bit harsh if the character doesn't have a quick way to get the points restored. Another option is non-lethal damage. It won't work for just any old thing, and a cleric nearby could ruin the effectiveness. But, the Star Wars system is similar in that it siphons Vitality Points to power Force powers, and since Vitality Points are recovered relatively quickly, it's kinda like non-lethal damage in D&D.

I also like the idea about increasingly-difficult ability or skill checks. And, if you really want to keep things tough, focus on ability checks instead of skill checks.

Dave

 

[tjoneslo]

The SRD states that temporary ability damage heals at 1 point per day. I know there are spells which will heal ability damage, and I'd probably allow some uses of a treat injury/heal skill to improve the healing rate. I can see how the ability damage could be very debilitating if the DM tried to have encounters faster than the damage could heal.

The thing that really throws the balance of this off is the availability of Cure spells for HPs and spell memorization rules. I've never seen a party with a cleric have any characters with wounds after one day. Of any level. If the the encounter doesn't kill them, they are fine (full hp) the next day. So one day after an encounter the party is back to full hit points and spell capability. I can see why any change to character abilities which takes longer than one day to recover is either useless or nerfing the ability.