Revising the Half-Orc -- a Variant

[haiiro]

Having enjoyed working on revising the half-elf in Lord Ravinous's thread (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44644), I thought I'd take a crack at tweaking the half-orc as well. Here goes:

Half-Orcs:

- +2 STR, -2 CHA
- Medium size
- Base speed 30 ft.
- 1 extra feat at first level
- +1 racial bonus to Spot and Listen checks
- +1 bonus to Intimidate checks
- +1 racial bonus to Fort saves
- Orc blood
- Darkvision
- Automatic languages: Common and Orc
- Bonus languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal
- Favored class: Barbarian

As with my variant half-elf, I used humans as the basis for comparison: they're almost universally regarded as a strong, balanced race, and they only have three abilities (all of which are substantial) -- which makes them a bit easier to work with. I view the bonus skill points as the strongest ability, with the bonus feat second and the favored class versatility third.

For this variant half-orc:

- the bonus feat matches up to the human's bonus feat
- the +1 to three skills is equivalent to one feat (roughly), and coupled with the Fort save bonus I'd say that matches up to the human's bonus skill points
- darkvision and orc blood (minor as it is) seem about right to match up against "favored class: any"

I included the racial bonuses to Spot and Listen as part of the orcish half (orcs get Alertness), and the boost to Intimidate based on their being an acrhetypal "enemy race" renowned for savagery. The Fort save bonus I added in because orcs receive a +2 Fort save. Since the PHB half-orc has no real evidence of his human parentage -- apart from not having a penalty to WIS or the orcish light sensitivity -- I wanted to make sure to include something that can be directly traced back to the human side; hence the bonus feat. I steered clear of Scent because orcs don't have Scent by default, although I do think it's an interesting and fitting ability.

I dropped the INT bonus because I don't completely agree with WotC's position that a positive STR shift should be balanced out by two negative shifts elsewhere. If someone can give me a compelling reason why this is the case, I think it could go back in without causing too many problems.

This definitely creates a much stronger half-orc than the one in the PHB, but I think it balances out when compared to the other core races.

What do you think?

 

[Araknir]

And now, why would any fighter type player would use anything other than a half-orc...

If it's too good, it's no good !

Running this race per the acid test (SS), it is better than any ECL0 race at what it does the best (melee-type) so it should be an ECL1 race as you define it...

Drop the bonus feat and pump up some of the specific skills bonus a bit, or give them a "fixed" bonus feat to better illustrate their savage nature.

By the way as it stands, it seems too powerful.. and another question : why do they get Draconic as a bonus language ?

 

[Quip]

If a race has a bonus to strength, then that race is best suited to melee types, yes? And what exactly does a fighter, ranger, or barbian lose out on by a penalty to charisma? Nothing! Balance isn't about numbers as much as it is value. Even an inteligence penalty, without a loss in charisma, isn't worth nearly as much. Few skills improve the job of a fighter, and those that do aren't easily available.

Even with both Int and Cha penalties, what Half-Orc barbarian is even going to care then? Mine never would!

It could work the other way too, of course: a race that had an Int bonus would not be much bothered by a drop in Str, since most often that race would be wizards. Str and Cha is a better balance, though Dex alone might be as good.

Other points... the awareness feat that orcs have is not a racial trait, that is just the default 1st level feat for an orc. Likewise the fortitude bonus is not inherent, its from their default class of warrior.

Skill points is not nearly as strong as the bonus feat. It may be stronger than certain feats, like endurance or something, but not just any bonus feat. Feats increase a characters power and abilities far more than a single skill point per level ever could.

 

[haiiro]

Running this race per the acid test (SS), it is better than any ECL0 race at what it does the best (melee-type) so it should be an ECL1 race as you define it...

I'll have to check it against Savage Species when I get home -- thanks for the reminder. I assume you feel that the bonus feat is what pushes this variant over the top -- is that correct, or is there something else as well?

Drop the bonus feat and pump up some of the specific skills bonus a bit, or give them a "fixed" bonus feat to better illustrate their savage nature.

Both of those options seem a bit problematic: the skill bonuses are half what the full orc receives, so pumping them up would be strange (and the Intimidate bonus is new), and the bonus feat is supposed to reflect the human half, not the orcish half.

By the way as it stands, it seems too powerful.. and another question : why do they get Draconic as a bonus language ?

PHB half-orcs have draconic available as a bonus language, and I didn't see any reason to change that.

 

[haiiro]

Other points... the awareness feat that orcs have is not a racial trait, that is just the default 1st level feat for an orc. Likewise the fortitude bonus is not inherent, its from their default class of warrior.

Doh -- you're absolutely right about that, I believe. Any suggestions for what I might be able to replace those bonuses with?

Skill points is not nearly as strong as the bonus feat. It may be stronger than certain feats, like endurance or something, but not just any bonus feat. Feats increase a characters power and abilities far more than a single skill point per level ever could.

My rationale behind this was that the extra skill points are a bonus that keeps on giving, unlike a feat, which is a one-time bonus (granted, a very good one). Over 20 levels, humans get 23 extra skill points -- I think that's quite a strong ability, and certainly stronger than many feats (exceptions would be things like Spellcasting Prodigy).

 

[Araknir]

One thingto keep in mind is that the modifiers given for races are the addition of two factors :
- Physical modifiers (would call it genetic)
- Cultural modifiers

For exemple the Dwarves' bonus against goblinoïds is more a matter of culture than something genetic (Gold dwarf in FRCS get a similar bonus agaisnt aberrations to reflect their struggle against them). On the contrary, their Darkvision is purely a genetic feature.

The problem with half-orcs (and with half-elves as well) is to take this into account. For exemple, a half-orc who was raised in an human town would get half the genetics of each race, and would get the human cultural benefits. The main problem, in this assertion, is to differentiate these two factors... and the most important, to keep them in balance. The distinction is not made in the PH and they are not balanced (IMHO) so to make a viable bastard race is very difficult.

To speak about your version of the half-orc, the bonus feat is granting it an incredible edge in what they do the best, combat, given many feats are designed around it.

Just my 2cp

 

[haiiro]

To speak about your version of the half-orc, the bonus feat is granting it an incredible edge in what they do the best, combat, given many feats are designed around it.

I see what you're getting at about the bonus feat. I felt that it was more appropriate than than awarding the half-orc the bonus skill points (and my variant half-elf gets the bonus skill points, so I wanted to keep the two half races distinct from one another).

When you speak of keeping the cultural and genetic factors balanced, do you mean overall (as in creating a balanced race from in terms of mechanics) or balanced with each other (as in providing 50% cultural and 50% genetic bonuses) -- or both?

 

[Quip]

Half-Orcs are a pain to modify, theres just too little to work with.

Humans get two major bonuses and no penalties, the only minor aspect is the favored class. Representing the "human half" usually means giving them favored class, as with the Half-Elf. And that wouldn't really fit the Half-Orc anyway. The extra skill points could work for the Half-Elf but not the Half-Orc, as it would negate most of the purpose of the Int penalty.

The only thing that makes much sense is a bonus to intimidate. Kind of like a special "cultural modifier". Growing up being feared by half of your kin could do that. Anything else and you'll be giving features provided by neither nurture nor nature.

 

[haiiro]

Half-Orcs are a pain to modify, theres just too little to work with.

Humans get two major bonuses and no penalties, the only minor aspect is the favored class. Representing the "human half" usually means giving them favored class, as with the Half-Elf. And that wouldn't really fit the Half-Orc anyway. The extra skill points could work for the Half-Elf but not the Half-Orc, as it would negate most of the purpose of the Int penalty.

I agree -- there's not a whole lot to work with, but that makes it an interesting challenge.

I also agree with your points about the extra skill points being a better fit for the half-elf, and "favored class: any" not fitting the half-orc very well. This was the main reason I went with granting the bonus feat to the half-orc.

The only thing that makes much sense is a bonus to intimidate. Kind of like a special "cultural modifier". Growing up being feared by half of your kin could do that. Anything else and you'll be giving features provided by neither nurture nor nature.

I like the bonus to Intimidate, and it could certainly be raised to help compensate for dropping the bonus feat (assuming that winds up being the best option, and I'm still not sure it is).

As far as providing elements that aren't a feature (cultural or genetic) of either parent race goes, however, I think there is room for this sort of thing. Maximillian's variant half-elf (in this thread: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44644) includes a CHA bonus and favored class: bard, neither of which comes from either parent race -- but both of which serve to make the half-elf an interesting race. They also make sense given the half-elf's ability to blend into either culture, while not really being part of either, etc. I incorporated this idea into my variant half-elf, and I think something similar could be done with the half-orc -- I'm just not sure how to implement it.

 

[Quip]

Hehe well thats another way of doing it, "not just the sum of its parts" so to speak. Going that route, you could do anything you wanted. A cross between human and orc could be a slow moving, wise creature with an affinity for druidic magic, if you wanted. Thats going into the realm of a custom setting more than anything, though.

Theres another version there of the Half-Elf that gives a bonus to both Dex and Cha, and is a ECL 1 race. Giving an ECL to the Half-Orc could let you make it interesting, somethig closer to your original race if you wanted. You could say that a humans intellect combined with the Orcs primal nature allows for things such as scent, or the natural ability to rage.

I think what you should do is figure out what effect you want, and then try to balance it rules-wise. Rules are supposed to be made to fit the concepts, not the other way around.