D&D 5E Revisited Setting News: Its not the 2023 Classic setting, but rather for 2024

[Marandahir]

Are we sure that Fizban's Treasury of Dragons doesn't count as the "very slight nod to a classic setting" book? I'm pretty sure that counts as a Dragonlance book, given the DL lore in it and finally getting 5e Draconians (holding out for DL Draconians was why WotC-published Critical Role books have to call their Dragonborn imperial spellcaster subrace Draconbloods instead of Draconians).

So if it does, then could the 2024 setting be "revisiting" Dragonlance? Couldn't that be possible?

 

[Remathilis]

Gruagach elves for one. Scarlet Brotherhood monk, Knights of the Hart, Circle of Eight agent background, Druid circles built around the original druids from 1e. There is a LOT to do with Greyhawk in 5e that hasn't been done and yeah you don't need... Dragonborn. Tiefling's would be fine in Greyhawk. There are Greyhawk specific monsters like the Greyhawk Dragon to name one besides the aforementioned Gruagach elves (Valley Elves). Actual Explanation of the Greyhawk deities and not just a list of names and their domains maybe? sure some of the data is there but the material itself is negligible and barely skeletal. Greyhawk is not the generic fantasy people seem to think it is or want to force it into. It isn't just Forgotten Realms, nor is it Tolkien. It is more Lankhmar but definitely Vance and an ample helping of Burroughs. It's rougher, it's dirtier, it's less heroic. It's more down to earth while simultaneously more Cosmic and Moorecockian.

If anything Forgotten Realms, as much as I love it, is the more generic of the two but that is its nature by design as it was intended as a kitchen sink setting where you can find almost any sort of setting from Canadian wilderness to Conan like Thay and faux ancient Middle East.

Greyhawk isn't this B&W, we're big dang heroes setting, it is shades of grey. It isn't good vs evil, it's Law vs Chaos and fanaticism. Not quite Mork Borgian levels but man, it's a lot darker than people seem to want to give it credit for. Dorakaa alone is the stuff of nightmares and the Pomarj? Unlike Waterdeep is Greyhawk really a city you would want to raise children in? What about the Great Kingdom with Ivid the Undying? This is not a happy place. There is not a Cormyr with shining knights and an Arthurian king. There isn't a peaceful Dalelands that occasionally deals with Zhent spies because Elminster is a busy body. No the great wizards of Greyhawk aren't even plotting for good but to keep both good and evil, law and chaos, from gaining too much ground.

I've seen the excuse people don't want grey, they want B&W and heroes these days except we know now they don't. They want escapes and adventure but not always the good guy. People like having an edge and Greyhawk has an edge. It's a backstabbing thief in an alley and a barbarian warrior laughing as he smashes in your head and Emirikol laughs as he rides off with both their bags of gold.

Everything you just stated is the exact reason why it won't be.

If you are reading the tea leaves, the D&D game has moved away from the grim and gritty style of sword and sorcery towards more optimistic and high fantasy settings. Even Ravenloft, the grimmest setting by far, is more Haunted Mansion than Hammer horror. The things you've mentioned: a monk class based on human racial purity, the lack of fantastical races like dragonborn or tabaxi, the grim "life is cheap" aesthetic. That is what WotC is moving away from. And even if they find it in their itinerary to make a real Greyhawk book, it 1.) Will probably not be the flagship setting for the 2024 revamp; 2.) Will not cater as much to the fantasy aesthetic of the 1970s and 3.) Will absolutely reflect WotC's modern sensibilities on races, monsters, alignment, religions, technology and game design.

Anyone hoping a Greyhawk book would be "5th edition rules, 1st edition feel" probably is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[dave2008]

Are we sure that Fizban's Treasury of Dragons doesn't count as the "very slight nod to a classic setting" book? I'm pretty sure that counts as a Dragonlance book, given the DL lore in it and finally getting 5e Draconians (holding out for DL Draconians was why WotC-published Critical Role books have to call their Dragonborn imperial spellcaster subrace Draconbloods instead of Draconians).

So if it does, then could the 2024 setting be "revisiting" Dragonlance? Couldn't that be possible?

Well I guess anything is possible, but I don't think so. There is a non-zero chance we will see DL this year or next. If so, I don't think it would qualify for a revisit 1-2 years later.

I think the most likely revisiting is Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk. I was leaning towards FR, but I also feel like it is the most visited setting, so maybe a revisit doesn't make sense. And bringing back the original setting for the 50th anniversary makes a lot of sense. It is also generic enough to be the basis for 5.5e adventures moving forward like FR was for 5e.

OK, I think I have convinced myself that the 2024 revisit will be Greyhawk. Until we get more information that is what I am going with.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Gruagach elves for one. Scarlet Brotherhood monk, Knights of the Hart, Circle of Eight agent background, Druid circles built around the original druids from 1e. There is a LOT to do with Greyhawk in 5e that hasn't been done and yeah you don't need... Dragonborn. Tiefling's would be fine in Greyhawk. There are Greyhawk specific monsters like the Greyhawk Dragon to name one besides the aforementioned Gruagach elves (Valley Elves). Actual Explanation of the Greyhawk deities and not just a list of names and their domains maybe? sure some of the data is there but the material itself is negligible and barely skeletal. Greyhawk is not the generic fantasy people seem to think it is or want to force it into. It isn't just Forgotten Realms, nor is it Tolkien. It is more Lankhmar but definitely Vance and an ample helping of Burroughs. It's rougher, it's dirtier, it's less heroic. It's more down to earth while simultaneously more Cosmic and Moorecockian.

If anything Forgotten Realms, as much as I love it, is the more generic of the two but that is its nature by design as it was intended as a kitchen sink setting where you can find almost any sort of setting from Canadian wilderness to Conan like Thay and faux ancient Middle East.

Greyhawk isn't this B&W, we're big dang heroes setting, it is shades of grey. It isn't good vs evil, it's Law vs Chaos and fanaticism. Not quite Mork Borgian levels but man, it's a lot darker than people seem to want to give it credit for. Dorakaa alone is the stuff of nightmares and the Pomarj? Unlike Waterdeep is Greyhawk really a city you would want to raise children in? What about the Great Kingdom with Ivid the Undying? This is not a happy place. There is not a Cormyr with shining knights and an Arthurian king. There isn't a peaceful Dalelands that occasionally deals with Zhent spies because Elminster is a busy body. No the great wizards of Greyhawk aren't even plotting for good but to keep both good and evil, law and chaos, from gaining too much ground.

I've seen the excuse people don't want grey, they want B&W and heroes these days except we know now they don't. They want escapes and adventure but not always the good guy. People like having an edge and Greyhawk has an edge. It's a backstabbing thief in an alley and a barbarian warrior laughing as he smashes in your head and Emirikol laughs as he rides off with both their bags of gold.

From what I've observed of my fellow fantasy fans, folks like to watch and read the dark stuff you're describing, but surprisingly few want to play it.

 

[eyeheartawk]

From what I've observed of my fellow fantasy fans, folks like to watch and read the dark stuff you're describing, but surprisingly few want to play it.

Greyhawk is not a grimdark setting like The Old World. It's just simply darker than say, FR or Eberron. I think that works in its favor. If Greyhawk is really just generic fantasy (which it's not) why bother with it at all instead of just making more FR stuff, you know?

More broadly, what's the point in having different settings at all if they aren't markedly different from one another?

 

[Marandahir]

Greyhawk is not a grimdark setting like The Old World. It's just simply darker than say, FR or Eberron. I think that works in its favor. If Greyhawk is really just generic fantasy (which it's not) why bother with it at all instead of just making more FR stuff, you know?

More broadly, what's the point in having different settings at all if they aren't markedly different from one another?

This is why IF they want to go with darker grittier fantasy with upsetting elements, they'll do it through Dark Sun.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Greyhawk is not a grimdark setting like The Old World. It's just simply darker than say, FR or Eberron. I think that works in its favor. If Greyhawk is really just generic fantasy (which it's not) why bother with it at all instead of just making more FR stuff, you know?

More broadly, what's the point in having different settings at all if they aren't markedly different from one another?

I love different settings. It's what got me excited about D&D in the first place back in 2nd ed. And WotC will publish other settings for 5e because people are clamoring for them. But they also have a brand they are heavily invested in, and modern sensibilities to live up to, and for those reasons I don't expect these new products to convey differences like the old ones did. They're going to want everything to pretty much look the same as base D&D, with all the same core options and values, and a mild flavoring of the setting in question. I have no belief that WotC will reconstruct the old settings faithfully. The only advantage to publishing them at all i can see is opening the settings up to the DMs Guild, where the fans can do it properly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is why IF they want to go with darker grittier fantasy with upsetting elements, they'll do it through Dark Sun.

That's my point. They don't want to go with darker grittier fantasy with upsetting elements. I would argue that's the opposite direction they're moving. Dark Sun 5e will very much be in name only.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I have no belief that WotC will reconstruct the old settings faithfully.

There's the rub. After seeing what happened to the Domains of Dread, as a fan of Greyhawk, do I want that sort of treatment? To be clear, I am not advocating for a 5e version of Greyhawk for that very reason.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's the rub. After seeing what happened to the Domains of Dread, as a fan of Greyhawk, do I want that sort of treatment? To be clear, I am not advocating for a 5e version of Greyhawk for that very reason.

Yeah. Ravenloft is my proof.