Revolutions are Always Verbose: Effecting Change in the TTRPG Industry

[Snarf Zagyg]

I've worked in a service industry - multiple, actually - but not ones where I got tips. Fast Food, Education, Retail Management (of a music store), and Receptionist. (One of the receptionist gigs was in Mental Health; one was in the National Archives system)
I've NEVER seen a check with a suggested tip. Not once. Not anywhere I've paid for a sit-down meal... Alaska, Oregon, Washington, Florida. The only suggestions have been at the register when paying by card, on the tablet or touchpad.

On the internet, no one knows you are a dog.

If you've never seen a check in a restaurant with the suggested tip at the bottom, then you're either blind or you literally don't bother reading the check in your haste to give 5-10%. Most POS systems will print it out now.*

*Seriously- it's everywhere. It was at Chili's 10 years ago before they switched to the touchscreen that ... also has it. Chili's isn't exactly the vanguard either. I can't recall the last time I didn't see it. Denny's ... DENNY'S has suggested tip amounts when you pay now. At a certain point, I don't know what to say when it comes to your personal anecdotes and my knowledge of reality.

Square does allow changing the 3 displayed. Same source, next section, rendered on same screen. Read your sources carefully before implying that someone's a liar based upon them.

As I wrote-

1. Square does not have a default 10% setting. Source. Give that it is not a default setting, and I've never seen it customized to that in the wild, I have to assume you have either a mistaken memory, or a very bizarre and self-selected set of places you visit.

That didn't take careful reading, did it? Next time, just try normal reading!

More importantly, you missed the point- if you are proudly declaring that you tip 5 and 10%, people will judge you for that because it's against societal norms.

It's the same as if you say, "I like to fart loudly in public, and then scream at the top of my lungs, 'SNIFF MY GAS!'"

You can do it, but people will question why you so proudly proclaim it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Somewhat orthogonal - but in Australia tipping norms were always a bit unstable, and with a general shift from cash to credit card payment (especially in the pandemic) tipping seems to have largely died out, at least at the casual cafes/restaurants I eat at. There was a brief period, probably 5 (?) years ago, when the credit card machine would give an option to add a tip, but I don't see that very often these days.

We also had a big scandal a couple of years ago where one of our biggest celebrity chefs was caught out underpaying staff. I don't know if wage theft is a concept in US law or public discourse, but it's become a big thing in both respects here. (And well beyond the hospitality sector - multiple universities, for instance, have had to pay sessional teachers and markers who were underpaid for the work they did.)

Wage theft is a massive problem in the US. While there is a robust regulatory/legal mechanism in place (FLSA), it doesn't suffice for the issues. Most wage theft is in the following categories:

1. Outright wage theft (usually in hospitality/service, such as hotels and restaurants, and construction). This would include appropriating wages, failure to pay overtime, and failure to pay minimum wage.

2. Classification wage theft. In America, salaried employees (exempt) are not paid overtime. So if a company falsely classifies an hourly employee as a salaried employee, they avoid paying overtime. This is shockingly common.

3. Classification wage theft, part 2. Classifying employees as independent contractors in order to avoid paying wages and taxes.

4. Overtime shenanigans. OT is paid based on a 40 hour week; employers will often do things like use "comp time" or look at the two-week pay cycle to avoid paying OT.

5. Clock in/out. Having employees do things "off the clock" (like open or close the store) in order to avoid paying for it.

6. Unlawful deductions. Forcing employees to pay for certain items that are not allowable, or that place the employee below the minimum wage.


The primary issue when it comes to this in TTRPGs is the independent contractor distinction; as I wrote at the beginning, it seems that Hasbro/WoTC should not be using the same economic model for vast profits that Mom & Pop joints are using to get by. In other words- they should be relying on employees.

 

[pemerton]

The primary issue when it comes to this in TTRPGs is the independent contractor distinction; as I wrote at the beginning, it seems that Hasbro/WoTC should not be using the same economic model for vast profits that Mom & Pop joints are using to get by. In other words- they should be relying on employees.

In Australian law this is tackled in the tax system but not the wage system.

There are laws that enable casuals to get reclassified under certain circumstances where they are de facto permanent, but I don't think that would have much implication for pay-per-word RPG work.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

In Australian law this is tackled in the tax system but not the wage system.

There are laws that enable casuals to get reclassified under certain circumstances where they are de facto permanent, but I don't think that would have much implication for pay-per-word RPG work.

Well, the primary issue is that in America, it is so advantageous for employers to treat employees as independent contractors, that they do so regardless of their actual status. The cute-sy name for it is "the gig economy."

I have no real issue with smaller operations commissioning work-for-hire from independent contractors (payment per word for written pieces, payment for pieces of art), provided that it meets the usual standards that the individual is able to take on other work from other companies at the same time, is using their own talent and discretion etc.

But as a normative matter, it feels wrong when large companies like Hasbro take advantage of this system and are making vast profits. I would compare their actions as D&D has taken off to those of, say, Games Workshop.*


*okay, GW does benefit from the minis addiction.

 

[BrokenTwin]

Canadian here, the standard tipping amounts I usually see at PoS machines are 10%, 15%, and 20%. Really annoyed by how American tipping culture has been creeping in here. Really prefer the model of just paying your bloody employees properly.

[I had a really long rant here about how most of the problems in the OP are more systemic issues of American capitalism than anything manageable at the individual level, but it was rambling, half incoherent, and partially self fluffery, so I cut it.]

I'm curious as to what companies besides Wizards of the Coast would be considered industry and not cottage industry. Paizo, probably. Fantasy Flight, if they're still in the RPG business (I honestly don't know). Whoever currently owns White Wolf, maybe?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Not sure these days. At one time Green Ronin had actual employees, but I'm too out of touch there to know if its still true.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Canadian here, the standard tipping amounts I usually see at PoS machines are 10%, 15%, and 20%. Really annoyed by how American tipping culture has been creeping in here. Really prefer the model of just paying your bloody employees properly.

[I had a really long rant here about how most of the problems in the OP are more systemic issues of American capitalism than anything manageable at the individual level, but it was rambling, half incoherent, and partially self fluffery, so I cut it.]

I'm curious as to what companies besides Wizards of the Coast would be considered industry and not cottage industry. Paizo, probably. Fantasy Flight, if they're still in the RPG business (I honestly don't know). Whoever currently owns White Wolf, maybe?

So, a couple of things. I can't speak to Canadian tipping culture or the POS systems you use there. A quick check of google shows that Canadians are supposed to be similar to the US (maybe a tad lower) at 15-20%. Again, it seems that most places I'm looking at indicate that it's 15-20% (minimum 15) in the more urban areas, and 10-15% in rural Canada, and maybe more in the francophone places. This tends to track my somewhat-dim memories from a while back when I would visit ... um .... "Upper US."

But ... Canada has much better overall worker protections and benefits (call it a 'social safety net') than America. All of that is ... interesting, but not particularly important. I mean, unless you're in Canada.

I wanted to key in on the last part- not saying you are doing it, but a sentiment some people often express is the whole, "I just want to society to fix the problem." And it reminds me of the famous scene from Repo Man:

Duke: The lights are growing dim Otto. I know a life of crime has led me to this sorry fate, and yet, I blame society. Society made me what I am.

Otto : That's bullcrud. You're a white suburban punk just like me.

Duke : Yeah, but it still hurts.


Ahem. Look, the point is kind of twofold. On the one hand, I agree with that sentiment completely. Collective action solves problems a lot better than depending on people to always do the right thing. Because ... well, people suck. People are inconsistent. People are weak. Even the best of us. And, yeah, it would be better for servers if they didn't have to depend on people tipping them well, if they just received good wages and benefits instead of knowing their paychecks could be ruined by a "I've got a tip for you- get a better job! DERPITY DERPITY DERP" customer. And it would be better for most of us.

On the other hand, we can't use the problems in the system now to absolve us from moral action. The perfect is the enemy of the good. I want mandatory service amounts included (and priced into the food, and passed on to the workers, etc.), but that's not what we have. I can either work with what we have, and tip appropriately, or I can make up excuses not to do the right thing. It's like the people who say, "It's fine for me to pirate that book and use it. I wouldn't have paid for it anyway." /facepalm

Anyway, your TTRPG question is a good one. I know WoTC (Hasbro), Paizo, GW (but they already do), FFG being up there.

But I'm not really up on my smaller, but not quite cottage-sized, publishers. I think a good rule of thumb is usually the 15 employee mark to distinguish between going concerns and growing concerns.

 

[BrokenTwin]

I mean, I do my part where I can. Don't buy stuff off of Amazon, minimize purchases from the most immoral companies, patron indie creators, try to buy sustainable where I can... but I'm one barely middle class person, and trying to live a completely moral existence is impossible, and exhausting to attempt anyways.
Regardless of how hard I try, I can't solve systemic problems by myself. That doesn't mean I have a free pass to be an immoral person.
In the meantime, RPG creators having a pay-what-you-want model with a minimum floor is a good start, and allows those of us with better means to pay more.

 

[Gnarlo]

I mean, I do my part where I can. Don't buy stuff off of Amazon, minimize purchases from the most immoral companies, patron indie creators, try to buy sustainable where I can... but I'm one barely middle class person, and trying to live a completely moral existence is impossible, and exhausting to attempt anyways.
Regardless of how hard I try, I can't solve systemic problems by myself. That doesn't mean I have a free pass to be an immoral person.
In the meantime, RPG creators having a pay-what-you-want model with a minimum floor is a good start, and allows those of us with better means to pay more.

We can only be asked to do what we can; I don't think any of us can be expected to quit our jobs and go out in the streets to organize marches to improve fair wages for RPG creators I'm the same; I minimize what I buy on Amazon to only what I can't get locally, there is a certain chicken sandwich place I won't frequent even though I loved their sandwiches because I want to be an ally to the LGBTQ+ community, the same with a certain hobby and craft chain, I pledged on an OSR kickstarter from one of our members here promoting diversity even though I don't play OSR (hell, I haven't actually played an actual old or new pen and paper RPG in over 10 years) because I wanted to put my money where my mouth is... Are you or I going to change the world? Hell no, but in the end we have to sleep with ourselves at night, and I sleep fine

Back on topic, I think part of the problem as well is the attitude of "It costs how much?! I'm not going to pay that!!" keeping prices below what folks can live on. Up thread someone posted how the 1e DMG cost $15 when it came out, and that would be over $60 adjusted for inflation today. Can you imagine the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth if WOTC tried to charge $60 for the rule books today?** It's easy, just go look at any of the message threads when Hasbro announced the reprinting of HeroQuest at $100 and the outrage at the "money grab" at charging that much, even though several of us did the math and pointed out that the $100 was within a dollar or two of how much it cost in the 80's, adjusted for inflation...

**Now, whether or not the extra money at $60 would actually go to the artists and creators or stay in the company coffers is an entirely different argument for another time
*** and yes, there's probably economy of scale issues and etc where WOTC and Hasbro are involved as well when compared to the old TSR back in the day, but quit messing up a perfectly good example

 

[pemerton]

When I bought my AD&D books in 1984 (I think?) in rural Australia, they cost $16.95 (MM), $19.95 (PHB) and $22.50 (DMG) - the prices are still marked in pencil on the inside front pages. Let's call that an average of $20 for simplicity.

I remember paying $20 for Essentials books around 2010/11. They're smaller and soft-bound but have coloured interiors.

I think I paid $20 for a 3E PHB back when it came out. I think most of my 4e hardcovers were $30-ish.

According to the RBA's cost-of-living calculator, $20 in 1984 is just under $40 in 2000, a bit over $50 in 2010, and a bit over $60 in 2020.

I don't know if/how the amount that goes to writers/designers compared to printers etc has changed over that time - I assume that printing costs have gone down.

Exchange rates are also probably a factor - they've moved around in that time, although looking at a graph going back to the 90s there doesn't seem to be a consistent trend up or down.