Rewarding the Pcs: Land and Rulership

[Aholibamah]

Thanks I'm getting some good advice. I like the idea of giving them individual lands as opposed to making them share, that makes more sense. A question about this though: how complex can this become apart from land administration, say if for example a cleric wants to build a temple or shrine, a psion wants to build a school, a paladin a keep and so on? Several of you allude to this--how did such games go?

Thanks for the downloads by the way.

 

[Ydars]

This kind of campaign can be great fun because you can invest the players in the setting. I actually tend to do this very early in any game; have the players have a tiny and very modest holding, often with a nasty rent at first, to keep the players interested in coin. Could be a wayside tavern etc.

The problem I have found with giving everyone separate domains is that it tends to split the party up; not a problem if there is some method for keeping them busy whilst you deal with each individually but can be annoying to play if not handled correctly.

I have handled this in the past by giving the players control of a tiny town that has just been built on a frontier. The Players are ordered, by the King, to run the town, ensure its survival and plan new works and additions, including the walls. They should be overseen by an annoying lackey of the King, who pokes his nose into their affairs, and controls the budget they have been given (and which they have to pay back within a certain time doubled). You could even have an entire town council that the players have to win over (they begin resentful of the PCs).

The players own buildings within the town but are rulers as representatives of the King (i.e.as Feudal rulers, not true rulers; they can be stripped of their positions if they fail to please him). This gives them individual domains without separating them up; as everything they do is for the town, this invests all the players in all the individual parts i.e. the wizard in the library and the mages guild, which the wizard will have to build up from stratch, the fighters will have to create a watch and an army etc, whilst the Rangers and Druids have to control the surrounding countryside and make sure rivals don't raid cattle and that the land is not unduely affected. They all get a title and become magistrates as well (except the Rogues; who become spies, intelligencers and assassins) and so crime comes into their purview,.

Now you surround the town with rival rapacious nobles, tribes of marauding monsters, rival towns, ancient ruins, rumours of plague and disease, the chance for famine, population migrations as people leave or arrive in response to events, inner city crime, inter-city spying and you have yourself a very nice and complex campaign indeed.

 

[Menexenus]

I recently picked up Eden Studios' Fields of Blood at a resale shop. It looks interesting, but you might need a spreadsheet to keep track of all the details. Another option is to take a look at the rules provided in the Birthright campaign setting. (You can check out a 3rd edition version at www.birthright.net.) The setting itself has some things you might or might not want to incorporate into your world, but the rules for managing domains might be helpful.

 

[Aholibamah]

Ydars: That's very encouraging, thank you. I was thinking of not making the area that highly populated at first, to see if the pcs are able to attract more people to it for trade and work and so on--maybe 300 at the trading center itself, maybe four or five manors of 100-150 people surrounding it. As well as that I thought one of the villages could be focused on a mine, while the others would be mostly for agriculture. One of the pcs was awarded a bunch of livestock that were captured in the war they won and so I think she wants to have her followers keep them for profit.

What I'd figured out for the area surrounding were the following things:
- a marshy area to the north that has a few lizardfolk villages as well as some dangerous monsters.
- There is a small riverine port to the west--since my pc group jointly own a small trading vessel which they want to use to trade whatever goods they want to sell.
- South of that is a rather gloomy dangerous forest--I'm not sure what I want to have in it but I thought of a small elvish settlement that is trying to reclaim a ruin, some grimlocks and some tribesmen.
- to the east I wanted to have both some border settlements that don't want to bend the knee to anyone (yet) as well as a gathering incursion of a hobgoblin warlord who at the moment is busy dominating other humanoids with the help of giant mercenaries.

I had thought that in the face of potential trouble from the hobgoblins that the pcs would be ordered to build a strong keep in the area and garrison it. One reason why such heroes as the pcs are being sent to the area I figured is to prevent outright war--the idea being that if their reputations precede them and they make it a pain in the neck to consider invading the hobgoblins will simply back off.


Menexenus: thanks, I like having options for resources. BTW--can anyone give me a vote on what would be easiest to use for both my players and I?
Birthright?
Pendragon?
Harnmaster?
Fields of Blood?

 

[Quartz]

I suggest having them tested first: have their liege lord send them to a small town / large village with the party leader as sherrif / burgomeister / whatever. Give them specific class-related tasks as well: the fighter has to train the town militia for service in the Duke's campaign next year, the priest has to restore the town's morals, the mage has to investigate ... Then plug in your secrets: e.g. the moral turpitude is due to a secret cell of demon-worshippers that's infiltrated the town guard, so the fighter gets to train his foes; the town is a port and there's a large-scale smuggling ring etc. Adventures and plot all rolled into one. And the next year the fighter, if successful, gets to lead his troops on a campaign, with the wizard as his magical advisor etc. etc.

 

[Ydars]

Aholibamah; you are very welcome Sir. I think you have things very well under control.

It sounds to me like a great game; I only wish I could play in it, but I always get lumbered DMing!

 

[GAAAHHH]

The companion rules set for BECMI D&D has some simple rules for stronghold building and rulership. You might want to take a look at those. The PDF is only $4 at the Paizo site, and RPGNow has it for $5. I'm not sure about other PDF sites.

- Edit. Also, Classic Play: Book of Strongholds and Dynasties from Mongoose has some good rules if you don't mind paying a little more and don't mind Mongoose products.

 

[Quartz]

Menexenus: thanks, I like having options for resources. BTW--can anyone give me a vote on what would be easiest to use for both my players and I?
Birthright?
Pendragon?
Harnmaster?
Fields of Blood?

Give them challenges and see if they overcome them - squashing a smuggling ring, reducing hobgolin raids, negotiating a trade agreement with the elves etc - and base your results on that. Successes mean a boost in resources, failures may mean a decrease.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

There's another thread about this in Rules forum you can take a look here

Here's my own contribution to your idea

I will recommend pointing you at three sources of info on this.

First is Expeditious Retreat Press, Magical Medieval Society covers all the pertinent things relating to feudalism, becoming a lord, holding land, running domains, etc. It also has an economic system simulator. The last part is in Silk Road as well, which covers trade and economics in more detail.

Second is Bastion Press, Airships. It's an OOP 3e softcover originally made for the Oathbound setting but it's system for shipping trade is fast and effective to a level of detail plenty good enough for most.

Third is The Dungeonominicon which is chock full of good stuff for all sorts of areas of 3e campaigns. The section you're looking for in particular is the Econominicon. In which they actually make the D&D economy make sense.

 

[Aholibamah]

Thanks very much for the link to the dungeonomicon, I read through the 'economicon' chapter and found it a good eye opener. I'll check out the other resources you mentioned.

I like the suggestion about pc successes equalling resources, that makes a lot of sense. Also giving them appropriate responsibilities to fit their class makes sense too--so I'll make the paladin the militia commander, the cleric the senior priestess in the area, the rogue/psion the magistrate (if that makes sense--he's more of an investigator than a thief), and so on.

Are there other thoughts about generating income? The Harnmaster and Pendragon stuff I downloaded or bought doesn't really have equivalents that make sense in D&D terms. Let's say we're talking the average manor, including a village of about 100-150 people. Should I just take a percentage of the income as presented in the city generator?