D&D 3E/3.5 Reworking 3e armour; need help!

[S'mon]

Mithril, adamant etc aren't in the PHB, they're in the DMG magic items section so this doesn't come up IMC, which doesn't let PCs routinely buy anything from the DMG items section.

For the PHB armours, chain shirt is too good relative to heavier armours (except full plate) so I evened them up by increasing the max DEX bonuses as follows:

Chainmail - +3, splintmail - +1, bandmail - +2, half plate - +1.

This makes these 4 not totally worthless.

 

[Wolf72]

my thoughts:

Medium armor: +2 AC, +50gp

Heavy Armor: +2 AC, +200gp, DR 1/- (doesn't stack with any other DR, and meant to be very simple)

... it hasn't been tested at all ... one of these days though.

edit: I'll attach the table later on today ... it looks kinda cool (view it in word, when it gets here, instead of notepad)

edit2: i'm a tard ... completely forgot to post it (will try agian weds night)

 

[Terath Ninir]

Quote please?

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2077448&postcount=10

If you look at the thread, you'll see that people are still insisting my interpretation is wrong. However, in my opinion, they need to learn how to read. It's perfectly clear to me.

The rules were balanced with the assumption of stats in the neighborhood of a 25-point buy, and games in that range see more armor diversity than those with higher equivilences. That's (one of the reasons) why armor seems insufficiently diverse in most games -- too high stats.

One of the problems with a more-or-less insular online community is that we all start thinking that the generally accepted house rules here are actually rules of the game. I remember my players back in the early '90s being shocked that critical hits were not an official part of the game, since EVERYONE used them. Similarly, so many people on ENWorld use point buy that they start to forget it is an optional house rule buried in the middle of the DMG, not the official method of character ability score generation. 25 point buy isn't even a Core rule. It isn't even as Core as mithral and adamantine.



After some consideration, the first change I think I'm going to make is to give medium armour DR 1/-- and heavy armour DR 2/--. (Adamantine would have DR 1/-- for light, DR 3/-- for medium, and DR 5/-- for heavy.) That change would make it at least vaguely possible a druid might choose hide armour. Probably not, but maybe. I'm also going to pull the suggested switch on movement: 30ft./20 ft., with x3 running. That just might make it pull even with light and heavy armours, though I'll have to look at the numbers to be sure.

I'd welcome any further input, though. I'm not sure I've quite got it right yet.

 

[CRGreathouse]

One of the problems with a more-or-less insular online community is that we all start thinking that the generally accepted house rules here are actually rules of the game. I remember my players back in the early '90s being shocked that critical hits were not an official part of the game, since EVERYONE used them. Similarly, so many people on ENWorld use point buy that they start to forget it is an optional house rule buried in the middle of the DMG, not the official method of character ability score generation. 25 point buy isn't even a Core rule. It isn't even as Core as mithral and adamantine.

I don't myself use point buy, as I prefer to roll dice for ability generation. I use point buy numbers because they're easily measurable and predictable.

The game was tested with a group of 4 characters (wizard, rogue, cleric, fighter) built on 25-point buys. The default ability generation method (4d6 6 times) peoduces similar results.

 

[italianranma]

I felt the same way about the way armor is presented. Only the top armor in each tier is viable, and once you get into enchanted armor the majority of the cost is in the bonuses not the base. Using these as guidelines I came up with the following new armor table:
• Rangers need a set of armor that’s built for combat but light
• Rogues need a set of armor that they can sneak around in (or rangers too if they wish)
• Paladins, clerics, and some fighters need a set of armor that gives them a huge AC bonus to offset their poor dex
• Barbarians and some fighters need a balanced set of medium armor that allows them some mobility and a good amount of protection
• Druids need “natural” armor
• Wizards and sorcerers need armor to cast in
Purpose AC Bonus Max Dex Armor check Penalty Speed
(30)
Light (caps at 8)
best statistic armor +1 +8 0 30
Leather +2 +6 0 30
Studded Leather +3 +5 -1 30
Chain Shirt +4 +4 -2 30
Medium (caps at 9)
spell caster +2 +6 -2 20
Natural armor (doubles as stealthy) +4 +5 -2 20
medium armor that’s considered light +5 +3 -3 30
best balanced +6 +3 -3 20
Heaviest Medium Armor +7 +1 -4 20
Heavy (caps at 10)
spell caster +3 +5 -4 20**
natural armor +6 +2 -4 20
Best balanced +8 +2 -6 20**
Heaviest armor +9 +0 -7 20**
** means that you’re run speed is x3 instead of x4

Alright: this is what I came up with. I think that this will give out the choices I want without making one natural choice for everyone. A couple of things about this chart: it’s not complete: I have to add prices for one, and flesh out the names for another. About the spell caster armors…In every other game out there you find robes or something for the mages to wear. How about heavy robes that restrict movement but not spellcasting? Notice that all are statistically inferior to Mage armor, and all the rest of the armors for another…I just think it would be cool: I don’t have to have them in there.
A few other things: this system wouldn’t allow you to have “masterwork” versions of the armors. Masterwork would be equivalent in cost and effect as having a +1 enchantment. Also I’d have special materials work in different ways: I’m not decided on them just yet, but mithril wouldn’t work like it does now: way too much heartache. The special materials would give different effects unrelated to AC, Max Dex, and Penalties.

Sorry if the table is hard to read: I don't know how to format text. If someone could tell me how to clean it up I'd appriciate it.

 

[Shieldhaven]

This is a problem that has been bothering me a great deal also. I'm just as tired of "having" to stat NPCs with chain shirts, breastplates, or full plate as I am of seeing PCs with only those kinds of armor. For a campaign that I hope to start later this month, I will be using the following armor chart. (Let's see if I can post this in a readable fashion.)

Armor AC MD ACP SF Cost
Light Armor
Padded +1 +8 0 5% 5
Leather +2 +7 0 10% 20
Studded Leather +3 +6 -1 15% 40
Ring Mail +4 +4 -2 20% 100
Chain Shirt +4 +5 -2 20% 200

Medium Armor
Hide +4 +3 -3 20% 15
Brigandine +5 +3 -5 25% 150
Chain Mail +5 +4 -4 25% 300
Heavy Brigandine +6 +1 -6 30% 250
Breastplate +6 +3 -5 30% 400

Heavy Armor
Splint Mail +7 +1 -7 40% 800
Banded Mail +7 +2 -5 35% 1000
Scale Mail +8 0 -7 45% 1000
Plate Mail +8 +1 -6 35% 1500
Full Plate +9 0 -7 40% 2000
Lobstered Plate +9 +1 -6 30% 4000

You will perceive that many kinds of armor have seen an improvement. I preferred that armor generally operate on a (armor bonus+max dex) total of +8 or +9, with a single and very, very expensive instance of +10. As long as your Dex is somewhere in a reasonable mortal range, you can find armor on this chart to suit you - and if not, well, mithral is still out there, but with a massive price-jump in the case of Lobstered Plate.

So, yeah.

Haven

 

[Terath Ninir]

Some good ideas in there. I'll be posting my revised tables soon. I, too, wish I knew how to post them properly on the board.

 

[Odysseus]

Reworking armour

I like the Conan RPG armour system , where armour give damage reduction and doesn't improve AC. Seems far more realistic and balenced.

 

[Tessarael]

Get rid of Medium Armor Proficiency - put those armors in Heavy Armor except for Hide, which Druids need. Don't allow mithral to drop the armor category to allow Light Armor Proficiency to be used.

And yes, Medium Armor Proficiency sucks, unless you're talking about a Ranger in mithral Heavy Armor of some kind.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I like the Conan RPG armour system , where armour give damage reduction and doesn't improve AC. Seems far more realistic and balenced.

I don't know how balanced it is, but it strikes me as less realistic rather than more. A greatclub shouldn't be more effective against full plate than an arrow from a bow, for example. (At least in the current system they are just as effective.)

Really, being 'harder to hit' strikes me as more realistic. A warrior in plate has a mace glance off many times before being taken down with a single, powerful blow... the plate doesn't reduce the power of the hit to a tiny amount that adds up over time. I find this is generally the case, with just a few exceptions (padded armor, for instance, is an excellent candidate for DR rather than AC).