Rezzing

[Lonely Tylenol]

If you get rid of raise dead then a player can just bring in his character's identical twin brother who says "you can still call me Landfill in honor of my deceased brother..."

That happened in my game once. I let the player do it because he died in the first combat of the entire campaign.

 

[Hussar]

One thing I'd like to see changed is the default setting for raise dead and similar abilities.

I'm generally okay with rezzing for players, but for NPCs it causes a lot of problems for DMs. All your plots where this or that fellow gets assassinated require either a bunch of special planning -- killing guy and taking head or other vital bits, special magical poisons, or so on, stuff that you almost never see in the fiction we're trying to emulate, including D&D fiction.


Mongoose's "The Drow War" had a nice little solution where the players and certain important NPCs were the only ones who could be rezzed (for plot reasons). That'd make for a smoother game and less weirdness in running a proper story.


Also, it'd be nice to see some serious discussion and a simplified system for running a game without any rezzing. Make it less of "here's some vague ideas, now figure it out on your own" and more "here's a system of changes you should make and how it will impact your game." For instance, codifying (and playtesting!) rules for what happens when a character dies and the player writes up a new character to replace the missing one.

On the whole Fantasy bit - how often does res happen in most fantasy? It's not exactly a common thing (although not unheard of either), so, just given the number of times it happens is going to make it pretty different. But, really, while the whole, "The king has been stabbed" thing might work in fantasy, in real life, bodies were quite often mutilated and whatnot after death.

Why is taking the head such a large sticking point? Never mind if you start using demon or devil cultists you can nicely send someone's soul to the Abyss or Hell and res no longer works. Makes devil cultist assassins pretty much in demand I think.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I always liked the idea of Resurrection being hard, but possible. Maybe if they added drawbacks to being brought back that say NPC's wouldnt want to endure, but a PC might.

 

[Arnwyn]

What's the difference between this and just saying "the PCs can be raised, but NPCs can't." It's not like you're fooling anyone. I expect that one can come up with an in-game fluff reason that justifies any arbitrary mechanical limitation or allowance. That makes me wonder why actually going to the bother of doing so to justify your mechanical changes is considered a better fix than just implementing the mechanical changes. It seems to me to be just as much a hand-waving fix either way.

It appeases those who value the simulation aspect of the game, while the 'just saying' suggestion does not.

Appeasing more people as opposed to fewer people is generally considered a positive outcome.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Generally, I prefer action points or other means to avoid death, but still keep rez, as a much more difficult option. Perhaps raise dead gets replaced with a "bring spirit back before it flees utterly" spell that has to be cast quickly (within a minute). That's mechanically similar, only the description has changed. It allows for deathbed speeches and other aspects of mortal but not instantly fatal wounds. Actual rezzing can then require the dead body. Leave the bodiless rezzes to the gods, perhaps in response to a quest.

One of these days, I think I'll run a game where the resurrection is temporary. The character comes back long enough to complete the quest he was one, and that's it. The rez comes with a geas to ensure that the character doesn't wait around, too. This would work better in a series of short, related campaigns, where characters normally carry over.

Alternately, the rez is relatively painless at first, but the character begins to degrade over time. Direct power isn't an issue, because you want the character to be able to complete what the player had in mind. But the character picks up unavoidable side effects from the rez that gradually get worse. This gives the player a chance to push on if he wants, but also leaves him looking for a good time when the character can go on to his final rest--and a new character come into play.

 

[True_Blue]

I guess I never understood why a Deity would have a problem bringing a character back from death, but never had a problem with their cleric healing them all those times over the years.

Yeah ressurrection is "harder", but honestly there is nothing that says just how much harder it is for the deity to make happen then healing. It may still be a drop in the bucket overall, we really don't know. So if a deity will let a cleric cast heal over and over and over, why not let him cast ressurection on that buddy? I guess I'm not seeing the difference.

And I think the only difference someone would be able to come up with is that death is different from injury, etc.. but I think it would sound all like fluff. There is nothing anywhere (hopefully I'm wrong) that tells just how much more effort it is for a Deity to give the power of resurrection to their cleric instead of Heal.

 

[Zaruthustran]

"Death" shouldn't just be another temporary gameplay condition that's easily remedied by the proper spell. Death should be a bigger deal than "Paralyzed", "Diseased", or whatever.

My players and I all agreed to get rid of easy resurrection. If someone dies, the only way to get them back is god-like power. Meaning either a Miracle, a Wish, an artifact, or direct intervention by a god.

Death is also slightly hard to come by. Characters add their character level to the usual "dead at -10" number, so for example an 8th level character dies at -18.

It works for us.

I think 4E should take the opportunity to really examine character death, and offer sound & concrete rules for:

1. A cinematic game (hard to kill characters, but hard to bring them back)
2. A wargame (easy to kill characters, hard to bring them back)
3. A classic game (easy to kill characters, easy to bring them back)
4. A creampuff game (hard to kill characters, easy to bring them back)

Decide on one paradigm for the PHB (I like "cinematic"), and introduce the other three in the DMG as alternate rules.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I think 4E should take the opportunity to really examine character death, and offer sound & concrete rules for:

1. A cinematic game (hard to kill characters, but hard to bring them back)
2. A wargame (easy to kill characters, hard to bring them back)
3. A classic game (easy to kill characters, easy to bring them back)
4. A creampuff game (hard to kill characters, easy to bring them back)

Decide on one paradigm for the PHB (I like "cinematic"), and introduce the other three in the DMG as alternate rules.

That'd be a perfect solution for me.

To make this more than a "me too" post I will also make silly comments on why head-snatching assassins is a sticking point for me.

****

If proper assassination (as opposed to ineffectual, kill you for one day and cause one level loss) requires head-snatching, then the assassin should have a class ability -- Head Snatch (Ex): As a full round action you may cut off an already dead creature's head and stuff it in some handy container. This provokes an attack of opportunity.

Higher levels might then allow quicker, non-AoO-provoking head snatches, and perhaps head snatches on Huge or larger creatures.

The standard equipment package for an assassin should include a bowling ball bag.

Wealthier assassins would purchase a Heward's Handy Headsack, or a Duffel Bag of Many Heads.

City guards would have as part of their standard duty the job of searching anyone traveling late at night to see if they're carrying any hidden heads. Conversations might go something like "Sorry guvn'r, but this is a dangerous part of town and I've got to check if you're carrying any heads on you." Of course, if there had been a recent assassination the entire town would be placed on alert and all citizens forced to prove that they're not trying to smuggle heads out of town.

However, I suppose this could make for an epic adventure -- Find Elminster's Head! -- though I figure he has some contingency spell already ready set up for just such an emergency.