Ride by attack - What can the mount do?

[Shallown]

Can the mount make an attack during ride by attack or is that only for the rider. It doesn't indicate in the feat what the mount can and cannot do.

I was trying to decide if it was balanced to allow the mount to attack. Comparing Ride-by to Spring attack doesn't help since they are balanced against each other already. Meaning does the mount basically gain spring attack with the restrictions of Ride-by-attack.

What does everyone think... well not everyone but some of you


Later

 

[Wippit Guud]

The mount can do anything it can normally do with a charge action... usually just its promary attack.

 

[FireLance]

Someone will probably be around later to quibble about the difference between you making a charge while mounted (as referenced in the Ride-by Attack feat) and the mount making a charge (as referenced in the Mounted Combat section of the Combat rules).

My personal take on the matter, without too much agonising over differences in terminology, is that the mount can't attack since a creature would normally require the Spring Attack feat to move, attack and move, and the Spring Attack feat can't be used with a charge anyway.

 

[Artoomis]

The mount can provide your movement during your Ride-By Attack.

That's it.

It's actually pretty clear from the feat, where it uses the terms "you" and "your mount."

RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.
Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.
Special: A fighter may select Ride-By Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

[Shallown]

Sorry Artoomis. I don't think its pretty clear I think I just don't see it there.

The only interaction between mount and rider in the feat is using the mount's speed instead. Also that the Mount does not draw an attack of opportunity for that movement.

I guess the feat implies that the rider can charge since they normally can't on a mount.

According to the mounted combat section the mount can charge and the rider gets the same benifits and penalties. Ie a rider cannot choose to charge and have the mount not charge. Its both or nothing and vice versa.

So that seems to say to me (for arguemenst sake) that they both can attack since they are both charging. I know it sounds like the mount is getting spring attack for free but he isn't. Having to take a charge action severly limits what you can do such as its a full round action, straight line, no hinderances etc. spring attack has none of these restrictions (hence its higher requirements).

I can see an arguement for either to be honest.

Later

 

[Davelozzi]

I'd have to say no, for regular attacks (hoof/bite). Forget the rules for a minute and just use logic. The horse is charging. It's not going to be able to get a good kick or bite off without slowing significantly.

But I might let it do a mounted overrun/trample. Although I guess Charge and Mounted Overrun are different actions, so that probably wouldn't fly either, as the overrun would slow the charge as well, except maybe if the victim was considerably smaller.

 

[Artoomis]

...I guess the feat implies that the rider can charge since they normally can't on a mount...

Sure the rider you can normally charge when mounted. In the case of a normal charge, the horse gets to attack, too.

In the case of a Ride-by attack only "you" get to attack, you and horse both avoid the AoO.

The 3.5e addition of when the feat applies to "you" and when it applies to "you and your mount" clarifies this nicely, I think. The reference to "you" is not an error, it means "you," not "you and your mount."

 

[DragonShadow]

I'd have to say no, for regular attacks (hoof/bite). Forget the rules for a minute and just use logic. The horse is charging. It's not going to be able to get a good kick or bite off without slowing significantly.

But I might let it do a mounted overrun/trample. Although I guess Charge and Mounted Overrun are different actions, so that probably wouldn't fly either, as the overrun would slow the charge as well, except maybe if the victim was considerably smaller.

That stands to reason, by my thinking. The horse is devoting itself to running full force at its riders urging, and has to concentrate everything it has for that effort.
The entire point of a "Ride-By" is that the mount is going and you get an attack without having to stop and enter melee combat. Think of it like any normal cavalry charge: the horses might be bred and trained for war, but they don't attack each other during the charge, savy?

 

[Shallown]

Dave -
Couldn't do a mounted overrun or trample becuase they cross of hindering terrain and therefore cannot charge.

Art -
I would probably go for the simple answer which is rider attacks period. I was just thinking about it and wondered. We have been running it that way for a while. I was just thinking of ideas to help out my Mounted Windrider.

DS -
As far as logic goes the mount could charge till the end of his movement (making 2 moves) and still attack as well as the rider. Therefore Ride by give you the ability to do the same thing just choosing to attack in the middle somewhere instead of the end. So by the rules the same sequence can happen just moving the attack from the end to the middle somewhere.

I was just thinking of how "balanced" it was to allow the mount to do something as well. (balanced is a dangerous word and I want to avoid a long debate on what it means)

thanks for comments everyone.

later