Ring of Blinking/Sneak Attack and more

[Drasmir]

A ghost touch sword allows you to strike corporeal creatures while you are incorporeal. But that doesn't mean that it allows you to strike material creatures while you're ethereal... even if you're incorporeal as well.

(As it happens, the line stating that ethereal creatures are incorporeal is in error, but even if it weren't, you still wouldn't be able to use your ghost touch sword to hit someone on the material plane from the ethereal.)

I'm not saying that I disagree with you Hyp, but for arguments sake I am posting this next quote from the SRD under ETHEREALNESS:

Ghosts have a power called manifestation that allows them to appear on the Material Plane as incorporeal creatures. Still, they are on the Ethereal Plane, and another ethereal creature can interact normally with a manifesting ghost.

This line contradicts what you had stated that you can't strike material/corporeal creatures w/ a Ghost Touch weapon while Incorporeal and Ethereal. As we know, the ghost is incorporeal and ethereal at the same time and he can wield the ghost touch weapon. Granted, the ghost has this special power (manifestation), but couldn't it also be argued that the spell "blink" is also a special power? It is magic after all.

Is this really what I think? No, however, I enjoy debates on the issue so here it is. Believe me (and Taren will agree), another player and I in Taren's group can argue one side of an argument and then immediately switch to argue the other side without missing a step .

 

[Hypersmurf]

This line contradicts what you had stated that you can't strike material/corporeal creatures w/ a Ghost Touch weapon while Incorporeal and Ethereal.

No, it doesn't.

Manifestation allows a ghost to be on the Ethereal Plane, and simultaneously be incorporeal on the Material Plane.

With Blink, you aren't simultaneously present on both planes; you're switching between the two. You're never actually incorporeal on the Material Plane, which is the only place a Ghost Touch weapon could reach you... any time you're on the Material Plane, you can be hit just as well by a thrown rock as you can by a Ghost Touch sword.

This is completely different to a manifested ghost.

-Hyp.

 

[Destil]

Let's say I have goggles that allow me to see invisible creatures.

There's an invisible orc on the other side of a stone wall.

Can I see him? He's an invisible creature, and my goggles let me see invisible creatures...

... but ah - the stone wall also prevents me seeing him, and the goggles do nothing about that.

"The goggles, they do nothing!"

And just to keep this from being a 100% useless post, has 3.5 handled the issue of blinking vs. blindfight / uncanny dodge more explicitly than 3.0?

 

[Darklone]

No, they figured out we would be bored if they cleaned up every silly rules problem.

 

[Drasmir]

Manifestation allows a ghost to be on the Ethereal Plane, and simultaneously be incorporeal on the Material Plane.

With Blink, you aren't simultaneously present on both planes; you're switching between the two.

I agree that when a ghost manifests it is simultaneously on the Ethereal Plane and incorporeal on the Material Plane, however, I disagree that (based on the spell description) with Blink you are not also simultaneously on the Ethereal Plane and incorporeal on the Material Plane. Basically 50% of the time you are in this multi-plane state.

From 3.5 SRD description of Blink
Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures.

From 3.5 SRD description of Blink
An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down.

So, if I am Blinking I am on the Ethereal Plane approximately 50% of the time and since I'm Ethereal, I am incorporeal during that 50% time period.

Originally posted by Hypersmurf
You're never actually incorporeal on the Material Plane, which is the only place a Ghost Touch weapon could reach you... any time you're on the Material Plane, you can be hit just as well by a thrown rock as you can by a Ghost Touch sword.

I agree with what you are saying here, however, my original argument is that, while Blinking, a character can use a Ghost Touch weapon (since they are incorporeal) to negate the 20% miss chance associated with Blinking.

Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.

So, in essence, while blinking I use the Ghost Touch weapon. When I blink to ethereal (and therefore become incorporeal) the Ghost Touch weapon remains corporeal so that I can wield it to strike corporeal creatures, thereby negating the 20% miss chance associated with Blinking.

Now, I fully concede that the spell description for Blink may be incorrect, but as far as I know there has not been any errata to correct this yet.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now, I fully concede that the spell description for Blink may be incorrect, but as far as I know there has not been any errata to correct this yet.

No, you're missing the point.

Even if the spell text were correct, it would mean you were incorporeal while Ethereal... as in while on the Ethereal Plane. So you could use your Ghost Touch weapon to hit corporeal creatures on the Ethereal Plane, but not corporeal creatures on the Material Plane, since a Ghost Touch weapon can't reach from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane.

Even if the spell text were correct, it says nothing about you coexisting on two planes like a manifested ghost.

-Hyp.

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

H-Smurf makes a good point.

Besides - I want to smack down Drasmir the Power Gamer!

Seriously though, I don't believe the spirit of the Ghost touched weapon was to reduce/remove the miss change on the blink spell.

Otherwise, I would be included to increase the level of the blink spell and/or the cost of ghost touch.

Taren Nighteyes

 

[Drasmir]

Seriously though, I don't believe the spirit of the Ghost touched weapon was to reduce/remove the miss change on the blink spell.

Otherwise, I would be included to increase the level of the blink spell and/or the cost of ghost touch.

I agree with Taren and Hypersmurf so please don't misunderstand. I believe that WotC did not review their books for continuity very well at all and that this is one of those mistakes they overlooked. If I were DM, I would rule just like you have here. All I'm doing here is discussing for the sake of it (I'm at work and I get bored).

No, you're missing the point.

Even if the spell text were correct, it would mean you were incorporeal while Ethereal... as in while on the Ethereal Plane. So you could use your Ghost Touch weapon to hit corporeal creatures on the Ethereal Plane, but not corporeal creatures on the Material Plane, since a Ghost Touch weapon can't reach from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane.

Even if the spell text were correct, it says nothing about you coexisting on two planes like a manifested ghost.

For arguments sake though, the following quotes imply that you do exist on both planes:

From 3.5 SRD INCORPOREALITY
Incorporeal creatures are present on the same plane as the characters...

From 3.5 SRD THE ETHEREAL PLANE
A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible, incorporeal, and utterly silent to someone on the Material Plane.

Seems to me that this text (which is more that needs updating from WotC) can be interpreted as Incorporeal creatures are present on the Material Plane.