Ritual: Arcane Lock - Can it be used on backpacks/bags/Other personal belongings?

[zoggynog]

Hey Folks! DMing 4e, Need some clarification, First, the Arcane Lock Ritual Text:

RITUAL: ARCANE LOCK

You bind a door so that intruders can’t easily pass. The door is limned with amber light, which fades to a soft glow, marking it as impassible to anyone other than you and your allies.

Component Cost: 25 gp
Market Price: 150 gp
Key Skill: Arcana Level: 4
Category: Warding
Time: 10 minutes
Duration: Permanent


You lock a door, a window, a gate, a portcullis, or some other means of ingress. You can open the door normally, but those who don’t have your permission to use it find it locked.

Your Arcana check, with a +5 bonus, sets the DC for Thievery checks or Strength checks made to open the door.

When you perform the ritual, you can allow for certain other creatures or types of creatures to pass through the door normally, ignoring the ward’s effect.

You can choose any or all (or none) of the following options:

Password: You can set a verbal password. If uttered within 5 squares of the portal, the speaker can ignore the ward for the next minute.

Individuals: You can designate up to ten other specific individuals who can ignore the ward at all times.

Descriptions: You can describe one or more categories of creatures who can ignore the ward at all times, using specific, observable characteristics such as species, type, size, or equipment carried or worn.

The Arcane Lock remains until you dismiss it, the door is destroyed, or until the ward is defeated, such as by the Knock ritual or a successful Strength or Thievery check. Wherever you are, you instantly know if your Arcane Lock is defeated by one of these methods.

First published in Player's Handbook.


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So, Can this be put on a personal item, like a bag, or a satchel, or a backpack, or a jar? I know as DM I can "allow" whatever, but I'm looking for some insight into what is most fair.

At first I didn't see any problem with allowing it on a "non-passage way" type object, but then I read:

"Wherever you are, you instantly know if your Arcane Lock is defeated by one of these methods (Strength or Thievery)."

That seems a bit unfair to a rogue in the party who wants to redivide up the wealth of the group and makes a good roll. Or an NPC in the street who is clearly more a thief than the paranoid wizard is perceptive.

Wouldn't an Arcane Lock basically be fool-proof? Even if it's defeated, it still alerts.

On the flip side, it cost the wizard component costs, obtaining the ritual, and the thoughtfulness to use the ritual in this manner to begin with.

Thoughts?

 

[DracoSuave]

Hey Folks! DMing 4e, Need some clarification, First, the Arcane Lock Ritual Text:

RITUAL: ARCANE LOCK

You bind a door so that intruders can’t easily pass. The door is limned with amber light, which fades to a soft glow, marking it as impassible to anyone other than you and your allies.

Component Cost: 25 gp
Market Price: 150 gp
Key Skill: Arcana Level: 4
Category: Warding
Time: 10 minutes
Duration: Permanent


You lock a door, a window, a gate, a portcullis, or some other means of ingress. You can open the door normally, but those who don’t have your permission to use it find it locked.

First off, might I say, thank you very much for quoting the pertinent game element. This saves a lot of time for those answering questions like this, and it is very much appreciated. You'll be more likely to get pertinent and effective answers this way, it is a good habit to follow.

Secondly, this is an interpretation of what I think the spirit of the rules are, which is the best you can get. Rituals aren't as codified rigorously as powers are, they've got more room for interpretation. (this is by design) However, this is what I would do for an RPGA event.

The question at hand, is whether the item is a door, window, gate, portcullis, or other means of ingress.

Well, ingress can refer to the moment before the total eclipse while the celestial body is dissappearing, but that I doubt is the sense of this.

More importantly, it refers to 'entrance', 'entry', 'means of entering.' The context, is a means by which one could enter another thing. I would interpret that to imply not things that one could simply place part of oneself in, but these entries must have some way of reasonably admitting your typical character, halfling or gnome sized. Pet doors for a small cat would also count, because they are doors, which is already defined as acceptable.

So, Can this be put on a personal item, like a bag, or a satchel, or a backpack, or a jar? I know as DM I can "allow" whatever, but I'm looking for some insight into what is most fair.

It would have to be a very large bag, satchel, backpack, or jar, one that could reasonably carry a person inside. Most adventurer's gear would certainly not qualify.

However, the door to your tent WOULD qualify, as that is... well... a door!

In Before 'The Door Is A Jar' jokes.

 

[Ahglock]

My initial impression would be to say no. It refers to a few types of "doors" and calls them a method of ingress. That implies to me a real opening that you move your body through, not something you reach your hand into. I don't think it makes a difference either way, and terms like ingress can be interpreted in multiple ways.

As for it not being fair for the PC thief who wants to rob the party, I kind of think tough for him. Oh no, you can't cheat the party and probably wreck the campaign when people find out about it and then the party fights happen. Or they pretend they are astonishingly stupid and can't figure out its the PC thief who is stealing from them.

I never found that crap fun, though i guess some people would. But somehow I doubt the thief player would be happy if I slit his throat in his sleep because my character can add 2 & 2 together. Or I get told by the DM I don't know the thief stole my money. Sure he has 50 gagillion more GP than anyone else in the party and I've seen him slip things in his pocket that were the parties but that could like totally of been a one time event, I can't use ooc knowledge. Not that I blame the DM for that, he doesn't need the game to be wrecked by me killing off a player. But hey why should the rest of the party have to suck it up and deal with the thief players bad behavior just because he played a thief class.(yeah I ranted, but it happened to me in a game 10 or so years ago and I remember it as one of those things I never wanted to let happen in any game I ran)

Also on a side note, due to how skills work in this game that thief on the street kind of auto steals from the wizard if he is an appropriate challenge. While I don't think this spell by how it is written would fix that is it so bad if the wizard with a ritual or anyone else without the perception skill can stop someone from just rolling him without any effort?

 

[Oompa]

If there are no other rituals that could do this on a bag or something like that, i would allow it. Or let the pc research the ritual.

 

[DracoSuave]

Not that I blame the DM for that, he doesn't need the game to be wrecked by me killing off a player.

He also doesn't need a douchebag player using 'I'm a thief' to justify stealing from his party members.

Realisticly speaking, while it might not end in bloodshed, it should -at minimum- end with their character booted from the party.

Either way, he's back to the character creation rules.

 

[Mirtek]

Note that the ritual doesn't magically harden the whole item, it just protects the entrance.

If you arcane lock the door, nothing prevents people from climbing through a windows or smashing a hole into the wall next to the door.

So if you arcane lock your backpack, nothing prevents people from just cutting a new opening to go through your stuff. So it's only good to prevent quick searches of your belongings, anyone with just a little more time with your stuff (e.g. after they captured you) can just easily circumvent the arcane locked opening.

 

[holywhitetrash]

Note that the ritual doesn't magically harden the whole item, it just protects the entrance.

If you arcane lock the door, nothing prevents people from climbing through a windows or smashing a hole into the wall next to the door.

So if you arcane lock your backpack, nothing prevents people from just cutting a new opening to go through your stuff. So it's only good to prevent quick searches of your belongings, anyone with just a little more time with your stuff (e.g. after they captured you) can just easily circumvent the arcane locked opening.

i think the point was just so you wouldn't have to worry about having your "pocket" picked easily
i'm sure that if you were captured then the lock wouldn't stop them in the least since they could just assist the strongest captor in opening said container
oh and screw that player who is robbing party members

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Thinking about it I'm not real sure I'd want to allow Arcane Lock to work on containers. Let the PCs find other creative ways to deal with personal security. The fact that there is no maintenance clause like for some other rituals makes it likely that ALL characters beyond 5th level or so will be dropping arcane locks on every single pocket, pouch, etc they possess. 25gp is peanuts at that point. If the ritual required an HS a day to maintain or something it would put a limit on that kind of thing, but as written it will go rampant. Besides would ANY NPC shopkeeper with any sense and decently expensive merchandise not go crazy with this ritual as well? As-is it seems like arcane locked doors and windows are going to be pretty common unless the setting is really low magic.