Rituals - A wizard can Raise Dead?

It's also been my understanding that, while ritual scrolls have a suggested "market value", it doesn't have to mean that they're commonly available in every major D&D city.

WotC did the wise thing, I suspect; they set a "guide price" while saying nothing about degree of availability. As ever, this rests with the individual DM.

So ... finding that Raise Dead scroll might be an adventure in itself. Just because players have the gold, doesn't mean that the temple of Asmodeus has opened a handy-dandy Wal-Mart (what? you mean you never knew about Asmodeus and Wal-Mart? C'mon! You must've at least suspected!) in the nearby city of Bigburgh.

Getting what they need may require more than gold.

LL
 

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I really think its just fine.

Say you have a group of three players, all excited about Martial Power. They select a Tactical Warlord as their leader, fighter as their defender, and also have a rogue as their striker.

They may quite possibly be hosed without a "traditional" cleric if access to key rituals such as Raise Dead or Remove Affliction is restricted. As is, one of the characters will need to spend two feats to get access to them -- probably the TacLord picking up Arcana, as it might actually be useful. Why make it more painful than it is and require spending a feat on Religion, too? I think its a feature that you don't need a cleric in every party, not a bug.
Definitely, definitely a feature.

I think at the very least I am going to house rule that you have to be *trained* in the skill that a ritual is based on in order to use it. That way you can just have a warrior with no Arcana training doing a scrying ritual. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Thanks for the discussion. I feel a *bit* better about the lack of division in rituals now.

~ Justin
I know you've already said you've come around a bit, but I'll throw in a couple more thoughts. Ritual Scroll =/= spell scroll from 3.x. Spell scrolls were written in "magic", which was set apart as a distinct language of sorts. However, since ritual scrolls can be used by anyone without training, I imagine that they're written in Common or some other language (or perhaps the magic of the scroll makes it legible to whoever is reading it?), and more like a set of instructions than an incantation that requires background knowledge. It's like a recipe, but easier - if you have the proper materials, do X then Y then Z, and voila! you've got a Tenser's Floating Disc or whatever.

Also, I don't see a need to divide ritual magic into 'arcane' or 'divine'. They're neither, or both. As has been mentioned before, in much of fantasy, what is thought of as arcane and divine in D&D is exactly the same thing. It's all magic, the end results are just different. And if a 4e fighter has taken the Ritual Casting feat, he's not just some schmuck with a sword who knows nothing about magic trying to scry on someone. He's someone who has spent time learning subtle magic trying to scry on someone, and also happens to be a warrior instead of a priest or a mage. Big difference.
 

This is pretty much how I view rituals. Note that King Arthur has no training in the subject and must get instructions from the book of armaments, yet is able to successfully complete the task:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk]YouTube - Monty Python-Holy Hand Grenade[/ame]
 

My game requires that the ritual caster be trained in the key skill of the ritual being used. Most wizards will not be trained in Religion, so most cannot Raise Dead. Any Ritual Caster who feels the lack is one feat slot away from correcting it.

I feel it's not too much to ask that the guy trying to Raise Dead at least knows which gods he ought to be screaming at...
 

Given the scroll and 500 gold pieces, the bartender at the Drunken Pig can cast Raise Dead, and can't fail.

Anything beyond that is houseruling.

(The design goal was to prevent any class from being "necessary" -- you can play with any combination of classes, with the useful non-combat spells now being rituals anyone can perform, for a price. It's CHEAPER for those with Ritual Casting to do it -- but anyone can take that feat, and Skill Training to perform those rituals where the skill actually matters.)
 

To purchase the Ritual Caster feat, you need "Prerequisite: Trained in Arcana or Religion".

Yes, but Ritual Caster is NOT required to use a ritual scroll. (I keep seeing this misconception, over and over...)

I like the "IKEA" example. A ritual scroll is like a bookcase from Ikea. You get all the parts, you follow the directions, and you have a bookcase. You don't need any skill or training, you just do what you're told.
 

A couple things bother me about the way rituals are laid out in the PHB. The fact that seemingly anyone can cast a ritual from a scroll without meeting any prerequisites, and the fact that you don't seem to have to be *trained* in the skill that a ritual uses.

Am I reading the rules right, or are there restrictions on what classes can use what rituals, or that certain skills must be trained? Are other people bothered by the way this is done? Anyone got some house rules to consider?

I am thinking about house ruling that you have to be *trained* in the skill that a ritual is dependent on in order to cast that ritual. This prevents "classic" wizards from casting Raise Dead (a particularly egregious example IMO). But I'm not so sure it goes far enough.

Thanks for the advice,

~ Justin
I think the rule is great. It removes the "we need a Class X character" restrictions.

In 4E, you can generate a party of four Rangers, and you'll do fine. Or only Clerics and Paladins.

Or, indeed, Wizards only.

Sure, some fights get more difficult because your party is less flexible. But then again, others get (way) easier.

If there was a class that could not Raise Dead, this philosophy would break, and the 4E improvement would be gone. :)


Zapp

PS. That said, if you and your players find it more fun if religious types are the only ones that can bring back people from the dead, go for it.
 

Yes, but Ritual Caster is NOT required to use a ritual scroll. (I keep seeing this misconception, over and over...)

I like the "IKEA" example. A ritual scroll is like a bookcase from Ikea. You get all the parts, you follow the directions, and you have a bookcase. You don't need any skill or training, you just do what you're told.

Correct, and for those confused - "ritual casting" allows one to make ritual books, which are permanent records of rituals, and then from those, to create the scrolls.

A scroll reader needs only to read the scroll.
 

I really think its just fine.

Say you have a group of three players, all excited about Martial Power. They select a Tactical Warlord as their leader, fighter as their defender, and also have a rogue as their striker.

They may quite possibly be hosed without a "traditional" cleric if access to key rituals such as Raise Dead or Remove Affliction is restricted. As is, one of the characters will need to spend two feats to get access to them -- probably the TacLord picking up Arcana, as it might actually be useful. Why make it more painful than it is and require spending a feat on Religion, too? I think its a feature that you don't need a cleric in every party, not a bug.

As quoted above, you only need "Ritual Caster" if you want to make permanent record of rituals in a ritual book or a spell book - or to scribe scrolls from those sources.

You don't need it to perform the ritual.
 

As quoted above, you only need "Ritual Caster" if you want to make permanent record of rituals in a ritual book or a spell book - or to scribe scrolls from those sources.

You don't need it to perform the ritual.

I should probably point out that someone is bound to say "But the Ritual Caster feat says..."

It says "Master and Perform" which I guess the devs decided is different than just performing.

I say this because on page 299 you'll find "You can perform a scroll's ritual even if you don't have the Ritual Caster feat, regardless of the level of the ritual."
 

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