Rituals - A wizard can Raise Dead?

[ProdigalTim]

I don't know how I feel about being able to use ritual scrolls without training.. it seems like it trivializes the whole process. It seems to blur the line between life and death even more than in previous editions when even the equivalent of a 1st level commoner can raise the dead with a scroll and one easy payment of 499.99, allow 8-10 minutes for delivery (granted 500g isn't so easy to come by). Guess its part of that 'gamist' philosophy all the kids are talking about these days. Damn kids and their music.

 

[Tale]

I don't know how I feel about being able to use ritual scrolls without training.. it seems like it trivializes the whole process. It seems to blur the line between life and death even more than in previous editions when even the equivalent of a 1st level commoner can raise the dead with a scroll and one easy payment of 499.99, allow 8-10 minutes for delivery (granted 500g isn't so easy to come by). Guess its part of that 'gamist' philosophy all the kids are talking about these days. Damn kids and their music.

The rules for 1st level commoners specifically point out that they're unable to read and thus, no ritual scrolls.

 

[Lizard]

The rules for 1st level commoners specifically point out that they're unable to read and thus, no ritual scrolls.

Where does it say you need to read to use a scroll? They may have ez-to-follow pictures.

 

[ProdigalTim]

• You put your left leg in
• You put your left leg out
• You put your left leg in
• And you shake it all about...

 

[Dracorat]

Where does it say you need to read to use a scroll? They may have ez-to-follow pictures.

Page 296

"To perform a ritual, you need to read from a book or scroll containing it"

 

[Mistwell]

Why is this the case? From what I understand I could have neither Arcana nor Religion training, purchase the Ritual Caster feat, and cast anything I want. Am I missing something?

~ Justin

To purchase the Ritual Caster feat, you need "Prerequisite: Trained in Arcana or Religion".

Yes, but Ritual Caster is NOT required to use a ritual scroll. (I keep seeing this misconception, over and over...)

I was not commenting on what it takes to use a ritual scroll. I was responding to someone asking what he is missing regarding what it takes to purchase the ritual caster feat to cast any ritual, and not just scroll rituals.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't know how I feel about being able to use ritual scrolls without training.. it seems like it trivializes the whole process. It seems to blur the line between life and death even more than in previous editions when even the equivalent of a 1st level commoner can raise the dead with a scroll and one easy payment of 499.99, allow 8-10 minutes for delivery (granted 500g isn't so easy to come by). Guess its part of that 'gamist' philosophy all the kids are talking about these days. Damn kids and their music.

No, skill training is what you want to maximize your chances when casting a ritual - to get the best possible result.

Unless specifically noted, you don't need "training" to use a skill.

The point is, any Paragon tier character is at least as good at *all* skills as a level 1 trained character. (The +5 you get from training is equal to the +5 you get for being 11th level)

Require training and you shut out a lot of classes from, say, Raise Dead, bringing back the spectre of 3E, where a Cleric was required, simply because noone else had access to the Raise Dead spell...

If you wish to "detrivialize" the process, my suggestion is instead to introduce skill checks for more rituals, again making which skills you're trained in more relevant.

In the case of Raise Dead, perhaps your skill check could govern how many milestones you need to pass before getting rid of the death penalty, or something...

This would still leave the Fighter able to use the ritual, only that everyone would prefer it if he didn't...

 

[CapnZapp]

As quoted above, you only need "Ritual Caster" if you want to make permanent record of rituals in a ritual book or a spell book - or to scribe scrolls from those sources.

You don't need it to perform the ritual.

If you can find a scroll with the ritual, that is.

(My point is that you could need it)

In my campaign, I'm handing out few or no rituals on scrolls. As compensation, each PC gets a bonus feat at chargen, either one of the skill-pumps or Ritual Caster. This way, all characters can start out as Ritual Casters, even a non-human starting out in a class with no access to Arcana or Religion training).

 

[MarkB]

My game requires that the ritual caster be trained in the key skill of the ritual being used. Most wizards will not be trained in Religion, so most cannot Raise Dead.

"Most" wizards? Religion is an Int-based skill and is on their class skill list. It seems like a fairly commonplace choice for wizards, both intuitively and from observed examples.

 

[Dracorat]

If you can find a scroll with the ritual, that is.

(My point is that you could need it)

In my campaign, I'm handing out few or no rituals on scrolls. As compensation, each PC gets a bonus feat at chargen, either one of the skill-pumps or Ritual Caster. This way, all characters can start out as Ritual Casters, even a non-human starting out in a class with no access to Arcana or Religion training).

True. I didn't say that specifically but you're accurate.