Rituals too easy and cheap?

[bert1000]

First off, I love the split between spells and rituals. Great concept, and many of the rituals seem to walk the line of "this is useful but not always" (e.g., Detect Object has a limited range and is much harder if you haven't seen the object)

A few of the ritual however, seem to go too far for me.

1) Tenser's Disk is 10gp for 24hrs. Every wizard (anyone with the ritual feat) is going to have this running almost everyday. I don't think the effect is too powerful in itself, but I don't like that it is essentially default to have floating piles behind every party.

2) Phantom Steed is 70gp for 8 horses for 12 hours. Granted they aren't good in combat...

I guess it's not even the effect itself that bothers me, but the fact that, given the pricing, it seems like every party of applicable level will be using the same tricks.

 

[Styracosaurus]

Prices are easily adjusted. But I do agree that the money needs to be relevant or ignored all together.

I think that the time aspect of the ritual and keeping scrolls/books handy will be the limiting factor.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I guess it's not even the effect itself that bothers me, but the fact that, given the pricing, it seems like every party of applicable level will be using the same tricks.

I think this just means we need more rituals. Then you have to prioritise where you spend your money.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Vanuslux]

Hrm. I definitely see your point. I guess it's just another way of cutting down any kind of futzing about that will detract from the standard D&D game being basically a series of tactical encounters. Acquiring and maintaining horses and carts would involve too much cumbersome non-combat roleplaying.

 

[Celebrim]

I think on the whole I would be far happier integrating Rituals into the 'action economy' of 4e. I'm not happy with all rituals being linked into the gold economy because I want to have rituals without necessarily hindering a classes economic advancement or without requiring me to provide lots of bling for the purpose.

I think that the best way to do this would be to limit the number of rituals that a person can perform in a day. It might be even better to increase that number as a person gets to be higher level. And to encourage people to use some of the weaker rituals even when they are higher level, I think I'd have a house rule that breaks down the number of rituals of a particular level you can cast per day.

Hmmm...

 

[scholz]

1) Tenser's Disk is 10gp for 24hrs. Every wizard (anyone with the ritual feat) is going to have this running almost everyday. I don't think the effect is too powerful in itself, but I don't like that it is essentially default to have floating piles behind every party.

Note: I don't have the book yet, so I don't know exactly how this works.
This does seems comically unreal for this be the norm. I might have it come a nuisance of some kind to discourage its use (other than for hauling loot from dungeon to town, evac'ing the wounding, and the like). Perhaps giving the user combat disadvantage (or giving attackers advantage) because it 'drags' slightly or effectively 'flanks' the user.

Another possible limitation would be to require a minor action to maintain it. So you could easily use it for transport, but once combat starts or whatever, you'd need to set the stuff down. It would be just annoying enough to not what it around all the time, but still make it useful for those essential or innovative purposes.

 

[Satori5000]

Didn't they also say though that lower level characters wouldn't be swimming in money by the time they were 5th level (wearing more money then small towns). The costs seem ok to me, but as a d.m. you can always change them if you feel it necessary.

 

[Celebrim]

Hrm. I definitely see your point. I guess it's just another way of cutting down any kind of futzing about that will detract from the standard D&D game being basically a series of tactical encounters. Acquiring and maintaining horses and carts would involve too much cumbersome non-combat roleplaying.

Nothing quite like streamlining the game down to your core gameplay.

It's a lesson I think that the designers have taken from MMORPGs. It used to be that RPGs built really big worlds to give the place a sense of wonder and emersion, but then they realized that after the first time through all that sense of space was just another word for 'poor user interface'. It just complicates access to the core gameplay that everyone wants unnecessarily.

The idea set up is combat oppurtunities right next to your rest and reequip points, so that you minimize the time spent by users running between the locations when they are treadmilling.

 

[knifie_sp00nie]

Gold is on a different scale in 4e than 3e. You don't get nearly as much of it. That 10gp for floating disk is 10% of a 1st level character's starting wealth.

 

[bert1000]

Didn't they also say though that lower level characters wouldn't be swimming in money by the time they were 5th level (wearing more money then small towns). The costs seem ok to me, but as a d.m. you can always change them if you feel it necessary.

This may be true. 3,500gp a year to have your disk always present may be asking too much at low levels...