Rituals too easy and cheap?

[Pbartender]

It just complicates access to the core gameplay that everyone wants unnecessarily.

Your adverb is dangling... And in an amusingly honest fashion, I might add.

 

[bert1000]

I think on the whole I would be far happier integrating Rituals into the 'action economy' of 4e. I'm not happy with all rituals being linked into the gold economy

This could be interesting

 

[Benly]

A thought I've had is for magical "ritual implements" to be available that let you perform rituals for free up to some fraction of the implements' cost; more expensive rituals get a skill bonus but no discount. Honestly, I have no trouble with a paragon-tier ritualist being able to Make Whole everyday objects as often as he dang well pleases as long as he still has to pay for the powerful stuff. Combining this with some adjustment for undercosted rituals would make the ritual system pretty good for my tastes.

 

[phloog]

Nothing quite like streamlining the game down to your core gameplay.

It's a lesson I think that the designers have taken from MMORPGs. It used to be that RPGs built really big worlds to give the place a sense of wonder and emersion, but then they realized that after the first time through all that sense of space was just another word for 'poor user interface'. It just complicates access to the core gameplay that everyone wants unnecessarily.

The idea set up is combat oppurtunities right next to your rest and reequip points, so that you minimize the time spent by users running between the locations when they are treadmilling.

Well said, Celebrim - How is someone going to apply their talents as a front-rank striker in a negotiation with a shopkeeper? As DM, this will actually save me money on mapping software, as I can just draw the points of cover directly on the grid with crude squares, instead of wasting a bunch of time deciding whether they are trees, barrels, wagons, or nuns.

 

[fba827]

Your adverb is dangling... And in an amusingly honest fashion, I might add.

And just what are you doing looking at his adverb, have you no shame?!

Even when opely displayed, it's not nice to peek!

 

[RodneyThompson]

I guess it's not even the effect itself that bothers me, but the fact that, given the pricing, it seems like every party of applicable level will be using the same tricks.

Eh, you'd be surprised how quickly they add up, especially at heroic level. Last night we had a bunch of major revelations in Chris Perkins' game (discovered that the town Magistrate's wife was not who she claimed to be!) and every time we went to discuss our secret plans I was spending 30g to ward the house against eavesdropping. I ended up spending 120g and, well, my character only has about 1,200g in coin right now, so that was a good 10% of my current money just to make sure none of our enemies listened to us!

 

[Byronic]

I don't really see the problem.

The horse ritual is quite expensive compared to actually keeping horses. Really it's just easier to buy some and travel with them. They can carry their own food, and equipment. And if you want a quick getaway you don't have to spend ten min chanting to get new horses.

I think the horse ritual is really only important in certain situations.
Perhaps in case all your horses are dead or ran away.
Or if you have to travel through very difficult terrain and you have the arcane skills to make your horses simply fly right over it.

The Tensor Disk ritual is very nice, but at lower levels (relative to when you can first learn the thing) you might as well just hire someone to come with you to carry things and even if you make one remember it can only move as fast as you can on foot normally I think. So when you start running as fast as you can the disk will simply pop out of existence. Tensor's disk is really just handy to making sure that your hands are free when the villains come around to take back their plunder.

Even though I plan to use them as method of travel. I mean, why should my character get his feet wet just they have to go through a swamp?

 

[Andor]

1) Tenser's Disk is 10gp for 24hrs. Every wizard (anyone with the ritual feat) is going to have this running almost everyday. I don't think the effect is too powerful in itself, but I don't like that it is essentially default to have floating piles behind every party.

I fail to see this happening. Teser's floating disk has been around since the game started. I've been playing for 29 years and I think I've seen it cast once. And that was so the rest of the party could pile on it while the Wizard with the slippers of spider climbing served as an elevator.

 

[frankthedm]

The horse ritual is quite expensive compared to actually keeping horses. Really it's just easier to buy some and travel with them. They can carry their own food, and equipment. And if you want a quick getaway you don't have to spend ten min chanting to get new horses.

So did they increase the load horses can carry in 4e? Did they decrease the weight of feed? Is the weight of a saddle ignored? Is the weight of barding ignored? All of those added up VERY fast to load down a mundane horse in previous editions.

The ritual gets you horses that can be ridden [to death, I presume] with no concerns beyond the ritual's cost. I am not sure it is under-costed, but since armor has Basic D&D prices, and most items sell for 1/5th, it sounds like the economy is really different.

 

[Kraydak]

I fail to see this happening. Teser's floating disk has been around since the game started. I've been playing for 29 years and I think I've seen it cast once. And that was so the rest of the party could pile on it while the Wizard with the slippers of spider climbing served as an elevator.

There is a big difference between 1hour/level and 24 hours duration on an effect that is supposed to help your logistics. The duration has to be at least as long as the time you plan on spending moving (call it 8 hours minimum for real utility). 4e's disk, with its massively enhanced low-level load and duration, is somewhat abusable (mobile mini-fortresses FTW!).