Rituals

[Khuxan]

I know this is true, but I don't want to believe it *sob*. I could argue that it depends on play style, ymilemv, but I guess I need to concede. Having a clean sheet will make playing faster, and most likely more entertaining because of it.

To my players, at least try not to say "I use 300 gp of herbs for this ritual." Please?

Can I suggest that a compromise would be to essentially replace scrolls with the rare components you need. Scrolls of rituals are readily available and cheap, but it is the components (scrolls) or foci (books) that must be collected or purchased.

That way, characters can simply note:

Wyrm liver (Raise Dead), bear galbladder (Cure Disease), cobra venom gland (Detect Secret Doors), an ounce of pixie dust (Arcane Lock).

 

[Cadfan]

I find that in situations like this its better to describe the aggregate than the components.

"Cedric the Cleric carries a teak-wood box in his pack. The inside is lined with felt, which cushions the numerous small vials of salves, and ointments. Because Cedric was trained as a healer by the Monastical Monks of Monterey, his healing supplies also include a silk wrapped bundle of acupuncture needles."

On the character sheet, it reads something like
Teak Box of Healer's Ritual Components
Ointments, salves, acupuncture needles, scalpel, extra bandages (10)
500 GP max capacity
350 GP remaining

This gives me the information I need, plus some fluff that could potentially spawn some crunch based uses- if I run out of regular bandages, I could cannibalize the box. Or I could use the scalpel for a nonmedical purpose. Or I could do acupuncture for relaxation rather than medecine.

But the important part (350/500 GP healer's components) is easily accessible.

 

[djdaidouji]

Can I suggest that a compromise would be to essentially replace scrolls with the rare components you need. Scrolls of rituals are readily available and cheap, but it is the components (scrolls) or foci (books) that must be collected or purchased.

That way, characters can simply note:

Wyrm liver (Raise Dead), bear galbladder (Cure Disease), cobra venom gland (Detect Secret Doors), an ounce of pixie dust (Arcane Lock).

I'm not sure I follow. Would more scrolls be used as the components for other scrolls? I think I'm just really tired and missing something, heh.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I can see your points, though I'm still not crazy about it. Sure, there are hundreds of kinds of sand, herbs, salves, so forth, but in practice, there are four components and a wild card. When I make my game, I want player's inventories to say "Prince Ran's Warmace" or "Egyrian Health Potion," rather then "+1 Stick" and "10HP Pot." When I reveal that there there is a leather bag at the bottom of the pit with a number of vials of colourful dust, I don't want my players to list "Arc Ritual x200gp"

But I digress. No amount of argument is going to change this. I'll just have to sit and brainstorm a way to make it work for me. The rest of 4e is worth it.

Am I allowed to bring a Videogame comparison? No? I'll do it anyway.

I love the flavour, but I hate it in practice. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 both featured some rules for crafting magical items. I think I never used them, except the Mask of the Betrayer item creation system, since the components where easy to identify and easy to use. I hated the "pick a Slaad tongue, then a Vial of Dragonbood and some Feydust" stuff. It cluttered my inventory, and I had no idea how and when to use it.

The whole crafting magical items thing is a mini-game that distracts from the real goals.
Someone that likes it should be able to adapt the 4E system to suite his needs, but "generic components" work fine for me.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Only 500 gp to Raise Dead? (Forego detecting secrets doors only 20 times, and you can return to life! What a bargain!) And why, exactly, make it less likely that higher level characters will be allowed to return? Doesn't it make more sense that higher level characters would be more likely to return -- serious unfinished business, and all that -- not to mention player attachment issues being more likely at high levels?

I like the idea of rituals in general, but Raise Dead blows.

 

[blalien]

I must be missing something. What is stopping a level 8 fighter from casting a Raise Dead ritual?

 

[Cadfan]

I must be missing something. What is stopping a level 8 fighter from casting a Raise Dead ritual?

Lack of the Ritual Caster class ability.

He could always take the Ritual Caster feat, of course.

If he met the prereqs.

Which are being trained in either Arcana or Religion.

So basically, nothing stops a level 8 Fighter from casting Raise Dead, if he learns a non class skill by means of one feat, learns to cast rituals by means of a second, learns to cast the specific ritual Raise Dead, and then pays the time and components involved.

 

[djdaidouji]

I must be missing something. What is stopping a level 8 fighter from casting a Raise Dead ritual?

Fear of salves.

I believe its possible for anyone to cast a ritual, if they have the know how. I think that it is most likely a party will have a communal ritual book rather then a wizard covering it all. Though for the things requiring a skill check, the wizard/cleric might do the best at it. I think the reason a fighter can use Raise Dead is because if it was Cleric specific, and the Cleric dies, then the party is boned.

EDIT!
I forgot about the ritual caster feats. Nevermind.

 

[Ahglock]

Am I allowed to bring a Videogame comparison? No? I'll do it anyway.

I love the flavour, but I hate it in practice. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 both featured some rules for crafting magical items. I think I never used them, except the Mask of the Betrayer item creation system, since the components where easy to identify and easy to use. I hated the "pick a Slaad tongue, then a Vial of Dragonbood and some Feydust" stuff. It cluttered my inventory, and I had no idea how and when to use it.

The whole crafting magical items thing is a mini-game that distracts from the real goals.
Someone that likes it should be able to adapt the 4E system to suite his needs, but "generic components" work fine for me.

I hated that as well. Also on a side note when its specific items my believability quickly gets strained as all the cool ideas for reagents are put in. While I dig the flavor of specific components in spells in 1e/2e/3e, if you actually read them you sit back and ask how they heck to they get all this black dragon spittle.

 

[Ahglock]

I must be missing something. What is stopping a level 8 fighter from casting a Raise Dead ritual?

As pointed out by others nothing.

Some like myself consider that the suck others think its great.