Robillar's Gambit

[Plane Sailing]

I think the problem is that Frenzied Beserker is broken beyond redemption (can't be killed? Pah) and although I've not looked up Robillars Gambit before today, that sounds broken beyond redemption too (extra attacks are like gold dust, and how many extra attacks does this give you? Just silly beyond belief).

Cheers

 

[AllisterH]

Well, let's look at it and break it down.

1. You're level 25. Right here is a problem since quite frankly, at such a high level, D&D simply falls apart. Really, you're actually playing a melee class at that level?

2. Frenzied Berserker. You do realize that the FB is a "known" problem. Deathless Frenzy basically nullifies the drawback on frenzy so really, this just is asking for trouble especially at that level. I personally think FB is the main problem.

3. Robilar's Gambit and Deft Opportunist. Neat trick but really, if the FB didn't exist, would you REALLY be willing to take an extra 12 pts of damage each turn without the Deathless Frenzy AND the higher STR gain from Frenzy itself?

 

[Darklone]

... and a healer beside you who can heal you back from -500 to full hitpoints with a few spells while you still keep fighting?

 

[AllisterH]

I think the problem is that Frenzied Beserker is broken beyond redemption (can't be killed? Pah) and although I've not looked up Robillars Gambit before today, that sounds broken beyond redemption too (extra attacks are like gold dust, and how many extra attacks does this give you? Just silly beyond belief).

Cheers

Robilar's Gambit in of itself isn't broken. You basically get an extra attack AFTER the opponent attacks you and they also get a +4 to hit AND damage for this.

So you can see, it in of itself isn't that bad.

However, it starts to get more powerful, the more you exploit it. Add in the (Improved) Combat Reflexes feat and it starts getting more powerful since now you can potentially get as many attacks as you get on your regular turn but ALL of them are at your highest BAB whereas before you were limited to iterative attacks.

Then add in Deft Opportunist and whereas a 20th level FTR was attacking at +20/+15/+10/+5, the FTR is now attacking on his opponent's turn at +24/+24/+24/+24.

Possible ways to keep this in check.
1. Robilar's Gambit only works if you actually are hit. The flavour text mentions that you absorb damage to set yourself up for an attack so unless you get hit, no Robilar's.

2. Rule that Deft Opportunist doesn't work with Robilar's Gambit. Both trigger on the same event so one could argue that you can't actually have both feats work on the same event. You have to choose either feat to work. Personally, this is the one I would rule since IIRC, this actually is how it does work.

 

[jasin]

(I'm also thinking of banning Belts of Battle and Boots of Temporal Acceleration, but that's a different story.)

Where are those from (MIC?) and what do they do?

 

[jasin]

Reverse Gravity and Prismatic sphere is a good one. I don't know how many times the given creature would hit the sphere though. It could be up to 4.

They would be hitting the sphere, passing through its other side, and then falling back down after you dispel reverse gravity.

Wouldn't prismatic sphere stop reverse gravity's effect? They'd still touch the sphere, since gravity would be reversed right up to it, but they wouldn't go through...

 

[KingCrab]

Deathless frenzy is not a sane ability. If it allowed you to fight in negative hp up to a point but a certain negative level immediately killed you (say -20 or -30 or something) then it would be more reasonable. The negative level where you die even during frenzy could even depend on your levels of Frenzied Berzerker, perhaps -8 per level?

 

[AllisterH]

Where are those from (MIC?) and what do they do?

Belt of Battle - 3 charges renewed at dawn
1 charge - gain move action
2 charges - gain standard action
3 charges - gain full round action

Boots of Temporal Acceleration - Basically, Timestop for 2 rounds.

Both of these items are strong but the fact is, for melee characters they aren't broken per se. For example, what the hell benefit does Timestop really gain for a melee character? You can scarf down a couple of potions and similarly, using a belt to gain another full round attack action is nice but they aren't really things that would make a DM twitch.

The problem is spellcasters who can best abuse the gaining of new actions in a round.

Frenzied Berserkers - Really, is there any reason this class doesn't automatically get banned? Played by the rules, you're eventually going to kill your party and really its not like you get any good roleplaying value a la what a paladin brings to a party and If you get around the limitation of "attack your allies", you end up with a massively powerful melee class.

Robilar's Gambit - I haven't noticed Robilar's Gambit to be too powerful IME. However, I tend to play in games where the starting point total is between 25-28, meaning the only characters that can really abuse this are characters who are also the characters least likely want to actually trade full-round attacks with the monster.

At 25-28 pts, core races only, it is somewhat hard to get full BAB classes with dexterity higher than 16 and only at around level 12, will said classes actually have dexs higher than 20 due to magic items.

 

[green slime]

I'm not saying that the Frenzied Berserker class isn't broken, I'm just saying that Robilar's Gambit is also perhaps a bit overpowered. I've seen it be ridiculously effective when used by characters across a wide array of levels and tank builds, not just this one.

I don't get this. Some things are just so obviously harmful for the game, you wonder what the designer was smoking when they were created. It's like having blind kobold cohorts and their bag of holding all over again.

Just don't complain when the next dragon has Frenzied Berserker PrC and Robilar's Gambit.

 

[Particle_Man]

I've not looked up Robillars Gambit before today, that sounds broken beyond redemption too (extra attacks are like gold dust, and how many extra attacks does this give you? Just silly beyond belief).

Cheers

Note that you only get extra attacks up to your limit in attacks of opportunity per round, which is only 1, or 1 + dex mod, unless you get the *epic* feat Improved Combat Reflexes.

When I am looking at what is broken here, I don't think that Robilar's is where I would look first.