Rogue Feat: Surprise Knockdown

[Istar]

I think this is a good feat, especially for Daggermaster where 18 to 20 Crits, but some say not.

Some say that its no good because the enemy just use their move action to hop up.

But if you can knock and enemy prone every time you crit surely this is really good as:

1. Any allies attacking after you in the round get CA
2. The target cant move and run amok, its options are limited
3. You can use an AP to get another attack on the prone oponent with CA and apply SA damage if you havent been able to so far in the round ??

Or are their better feats for the Daggermaster ??

 

[Jack99]

It is pretty decent. Are there better feats? Sure, but you do get 6 feats + 10 retrains during the paragon tier alone, so who says it has to be better than the others?

 

[Mengu]

It's definitely a bit of a challenge to benefit from it. You have no control over when it is going to happen. Sometimes you get all excited you got a crit and you might knock something down, and the DM tells you they are indeed knocked down and no longer moving. Often times no one who can attack the target gets a turn before the target's turn, so they just stand up.

But of course there is the occasional good time when the fighter gets to go before a knocked down enemy archer, and can engage them, so the archer has no way of shifting away to shoot (well, sometimes they do, but those are special cases).

No control over the timing means your allies need to be watching out to make use of your critical hits. If they do, that's great, but it's difficult to plan for it. For instance if you had a power like Topple Over, you can delay your turn till right before a few of your allies go, and target an opponent they would be able to attack. That's a good use of a knock down. Randomness of the critical hit is not something you can easily base strategy around.

 

[amadeus-darkened]

For the Daggermaster I'd say it is decent. If you happen to be traveling around with a fighter, a warlord, or any other class that attacks with melee attacks that extra +2 to hit 15% of the time after your attack can be helpful.

In cases where a large majority of your group is comprised of melee warriors, surprise knockdown can be a lifesaver. In case the fighter isn't your flank buddy (perhaps a warlord instead) and your party wants to keep two people from moving a 15% chance of knockdown can seriously hinder your foe's plans.

Like others have mentioned, this feat usually isn't wortha look at all. But with your build it can be worth it, and with so many retrains available to you before the end of your adventuring career you can take a chance.

 

[Smeelbo]

I think the various powers that activate on a critical hit become more valuable as you rise in tier, as combats become lengthier and there are more opportunities to crit (more rounds, more attacks per round, and the epic crit feats). Think of them as "poor man's encounter powers." Once your character has run out of usable encounter powers, he can still "get lucky" with his at-wills, especially Twin/Dual Strike.

If I ever play epic tier, I plan on maximizing powers that activate on a crit.

Smeelbo

 

[Wik]

Yeah, Smeelbo's dead on. Really, for a Daggermaster with an 18-20 crit range, you should take at least one or two feats that activate on a crit - you will be critting roughly 15% of the time, after all (or, we could assume something like 30% of your hits will be crits).

Knocking an enemy prone is a great one, because it pretty much pins them down, not to mention the combat advantage. That being said, if you are the only guy who does extra damage on a knockdown, it loses some of it's charm. In our group, we have two rogues, so this feat would be even better.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

It can coordinate well with some powers. For example, if you have a fighter on your team, encourage him to take this :

Stay Down
Fighter Attack 7
You’re not above hitting someone who’s down.
Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage. If the target is
prone, the attack deals extra damage equal to your
Dexterity modifier, and the target can’t stand up until the
end of your next turn.

Kinda fun, no?

 

[MrAlgothi]

Prone is a tricky condition to get the most out of, there are a lot of variables to consider. However adding the extra ability to waste a part of the targets actions is usually a good idea. Also, most Soldiers and Brutes most likely wont care too much about it where Skirmishers, Controllers and Artillery will hate you for keeping them locked in place.

 

[Stalker0]

I think most crit effect feats are pretty worthless for most characters. Activating it randomly 1 in 20 times just isn't worth it. Once you take the epic feat to double your range or you are a daggermaster...then it becomes more useful.

 

[Smeelbo]

While I agree that that crit-triggered powers are best at the Epic Level, or for certain Paragon Paths, if you can't acquire any more Encounters or Dailys, you might as well chase crits. With Twin/Dual strike, you'll be attacking more than once a round, or with Tactical Strike, Combat Challenge, Opportunity Attacks, Rending Weapons, etc., etc. Any power that grants you an extra attack, even just a melee basic attack, is another chance for a crit.

Note that you pretty much cannot get an Encounter Power out of a feat. But there are more than a few feats that trigger on criticals, and a lot of magic items that do. While it is difficult to coordinate with other players on crit-triggers, all of your crit-triggers are going to fire all at once, every time you crit. Lots of potential for synergies there.

The longer the combat, the more critical hits you'll probably get.

Smeelbo