Rogue Mastermind Archetype Up, Courtesy of Extra Life

They stole my my help as a bonus action idea...

 

[Orlax]

actually my new hope is a prestige class meant to be taken at 5th level that could give the warlord abilities... it would be far from perfect but it would be much better then we have now (unless they mess it up...)

Wasn't the big issue with a multiclass suggestion that you can't be what you want from first level? At this suggestion you are still looking at at least 6th level if not 10th level before your concept is realized.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Wasn't the big issue with a multiclass suggestion that you can't be what you want from first level? At this suggestion you are still looking at at least 6th level if not 10th level before your concept is realized.

to be honest the multi class kitbash still wasn't a warlord it wasn't even close enough for most of us... a WELL MADE 5 level class that you could take at level 6 so 6,7,8,9,10 would be better then this... Do I still WANT a full 1-20 class... yes, do I still belive a level 1-20 class could be made and function as balanced 5e class that follows the theme and concept of the 4e, and 2 3e ones... yes I do...and I am saying at this point I would settle for a Prc

 

[GMforPowergamers]

By your own math, two 20th level BMFs can have entirely different maneuvers with zero overlap (16 maneuvers, they each have 8). You just proved that yourself. So my point stands.

your right I can't imagine how I didn't see that... wow you totally convinced me I was wrong...

is a total example of what neither of us will ever say at this point... can you atleast stop bad mouthing the request we have?

 

[ChrisCarlson]

your right I can't imagine how I didn't see that... wow you totally convinced me I was wrong...

Considering this entire part of the thread started with me saying two battle master fighters look different... to which you countered with a hyperbolic example of four BMFs in a group of twelve 20th level fighters... and I corrected you back to what I actually said... which you in turn proved correct... Thanks, I guess?

can you atleast stop bad mouthing the request we have?

Ad hominem. Or show me what you mean by "bad mouth" at least, I guess. Cuz I don't see it.

But on that note, I gotta ask: Request what? Of whom? What is the purpose of your request? Do you think WotC devs are reading this thread jotting down all the things you guys are asking for so they can make sure they get it all in this one class for you? Are you asking a fellow forumite to homebrew something for you? Or is a more general request that people accept that you want something that isn't going to happen?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Considering this entire part of the thread started with me saying two battle master fighters look different... to which you countered with a hyperbolic example of four BMFs in a group of twelve 20th level fighters... and I corrected you back to what I actually said... which you in turn proved correct... Thanks, I guess?

I never made a party of 12 fighter I took 12 different fighters and put them next to eachother and found half of there abilities were identical... I then pulled four of those 12 out and showed just umong BMFs it wasn't that different...

Yes you can take 8 powers on one and 8 different powers on the other (and use every possible power at that moment) but you still are almost carbin copies... and only 4 of those 16 powers are warlord like at all, and all but 1 or 2 are increasing YOUR damage by a d12

 

[Ainulindalion]

If you must debate a warlord, debate mine!

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?470284-Look-yet-another-Warlord

 

[ChrisCarlson]

I never made a party of 12 fighter I took 12 different fighters and put them next to eachother and found half of there abilities were identical... I then pulled four of those 12 out and showed just umong BMFs it wasn't that different...

Baffling. Unless they are all being played at the same table, they do not exist at the same time. What are you trying to prove with this Shrodinger's Fighters example?

Yes you can take 8 powers on one and 8 different powers on the other (and use every possible power at that moment) but you still are almost carbin copies... and only 4 of those 16 powers are warlord like at all, and all but 1 or 2 are increasing YOUR damage by a d12

I'd recommend practical experience, rather than white-room theory-crafting, for this. Having seen different BMFs in play, I can tell you they perform differently.

Now, if you want to try and over simplify enough to get to the point you are hoping to make, lets keep going down that slippery slope until all characters are alike. They all have an AC score. They all have HPs. They all have 6 ability scores. Heck, they all make attack rolls using a d20 (though, TBF, some occasionally make their opponents roll a d20 save instead of their making an attack). So every D&D character is the same, really. How boring is that?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Baffling. Unless they are all being played at the same table, they do not exist at the same time. What are you trying to prove with this Shrodinger's Fighters example?

ME!?!?!? are you crazy? this was me going along with your argument... one you make again a second or two later... what are you talking about shrodinger's fighter doesn't even make sense (I would guess that is a fighter who rolled his last death save into a covered surface and no one wants to look, at that moment he is in a superstate of both alive and dead...but what that has to do with anything is odd)

I'd recommend practical experience, rather than white-room theory-crafting, for this. Having seen different BMFs in play, I can tell you they perform differently.

but you just said unless they are being played togather they don't matter... do they matter or not?

Now, if you want to try and over simplify enough to get to the point you are hoping to make, lets keep going down that slippery slope until all characters are alike. They all have an AC score. They all have HPs. They all have 6 ability scores. Heck, they all make attack rolls using a d20 (though, TBF, some occasionally make their opponents roll a d20 save instead of their making an attack). So every D&D character is the same, really. How boring is that?

it was you that went down this train of thought NOT me...

 

[Pauln6]

to be honest the multi class kitbash still wasn't a warlord it wasn't even close enough for most of us... a WELL MADE 5 level class that you could take at level 6 so 6,7,8,9,10 would be better then this... Do I still WANT a full 1-20 class... yes, do I still belive a level 1-20 class could be made and function as balanced 5e class that follows the theme and concept of the 4e, and 2 3e ones... yes I do...and I am saying at this point I would settle for a Prc

Why insist on starting at level 6 though? Most likely the pre-requisite would be one of a choice of class features obtained from a subclass that the prestige class can build on? What's wrong with level 4?

Let's say you want features that synergise well with battlemaster, valor bard, mastermind rogue and paladins to cover all the archetypical bases that gives each of the sub-classes something they don't already have or makes existing features a bit better. So it's not a case of just stealing one of the other subclass's features for wish fulfilment.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Why insist on starting at level 6 though? Most likely the pre-requisite would be one of a choice of class features obtained from a subclass that the prestige class can build on? What's wrong with level 4?

Let's say you want features that synergise well with battlemaster, valor bard, mastermind rogue and paladins to cover all the archetypical bases that gives each of the sub-classes something they don't already have or makes existing features a bit better. So it's not a case of just stealing one of the other subclass's features for wish fulfilment.

I wouldn't say not to a 3... I just figured the freedom of 5 levels as 6+ gave more room