StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Alright! After the mixed responses from my Monk houserules, time to address the OTHER weakest class in PF, the Rogue! I aim to help rogue be able to contribute in combat better, make him less MAD, merge the Ninja and Rogue into one class, and most importantly... re-establish rogue as the skills-master he once was and provide better high level abilities. The massive bulk of this is my plan for "Epic Skills," a new per day subsystem to let the rogue turn his training in skills into wuxia/anime/high fantasy levels of crazy-awesome. It will be...lengthy. If people think this new giant pile of rules is too unwieldy and should be scrapped, I'd rather know now before I devote more hours into fleshing it all out. I have several samples finished. The rank requirements are pretty arbitrary, based on how powerful I think the effect is and how soon I think it should be available. Some that step on the bard's toes were intentionally pushed back a bit.
So, what do you think?
Rogue changes:
[sblock]- Rogue and Ninja are one and the same class. Any class features, tricks, talents, or ki based upon wisdom or charisma are instead based on intelligence. Talents and Advanced Talents can be used to obtain options from both the Ninja Tricks and Rogue Talents lists and advanced lists.
- Rogue gains a Good Will save progression
- Sneak attack works under concealment but not total concealment.
- A Rogue gains a bonus to Initiative equal to half his Rogue level. Starting at level 8, a Rogue may choose (before rolling) to take a -10 penalty on his Initiative roll if there is a surprise round and he can act in it. By doing so, the Rogue gains a full round of actions in the surprise round. At level 16, a Rogue always gains a full round in the surprise round, without needing to take the penalty. At 20th level, a Rogue can always act in a surprise round.
- At first level, the Rogue gains either Trapfinding or Poison Use (character's choice)
- At 2nd level, the Rogue gains Evasion and a Ki Pool, with points per day equal to 1/2 Rogue level + Int modifier, and all options available to the Ninja.
- At 3rd level, the Rogue gains either Trap Sense or No Trace (character's choice)
- Every 3rd Rogue level, choose two skills. You gain the Skill Focus feat with these skills.
- At 6th level, the Rogue gains Light Steps.
- Epic Skill (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a Rogue's abilities have been honed to a point where she can accomplish utterly superhuman feats with her various skills. A number of times per day equal to ½ her level + intelligence modifier, she may use any one of the abilities below that she has learned. At 10th level, she learns 4 techniques. Every level thereafter, she gains two additional techniques to use. In order to learn a technique, the rogue must have the minimum skill ranks listed. Unless stated otherwise, activating any of these techniques is a free action.
- New Advanced Rogue Talent!
Diverse Training: A rogue selecting this advanced talent may use any epic skill technique. If it is not one she actually knows, it costs 2 daily uses of Epic Skill. The activation time is the same as for the specific technique, and the duration is 1 minute per rogue level, or the technique's duration, whichever is shorter. The rogue must have the required skill ranks to use a technique even through Diverse Training, and the benefits tied to ranks, if any, apply as normal.
[/sblock]
Epic Skill options:
[sblock]Acrobatics (Balance + Tumble)
Dervish Dance (7 ranks): The rogue is able to weave, somersault, and roll past countless foes flawlessly. Upon activating this ability, for a number of rounds equal to ranks in Acrobatics, the rogue can automatically succeed at any acrobatics checks to move through a creature's space or through its threatened area, with no reduction in speed, regardless of how many creatures she passes by, the added difficulty of the surface she is on, and so forth.
Landing Roll (8 ranks): The rogue is able to soften a fall by tumbling upon impact. Treat a fall as if it were 10 ft shorter per rogue level. This can eliminate falling damage completely. Upon gaining 18 ranks, the Rogue can use this ability to fall any distance without suffering harm. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can be used even if the rogue is flatfooted, and it protects her from a single fall.
Light Step (11 ranks): The rogue's agility and nimbleness is such that she can tread on any surface. Upon activating this ability, she is able to perfectly balance herself upon a solid surface of any width, even hair thin, without risk of failure. Upon gaining 14 ranks, she is able to tread upon the surface of any liquid or any solid surface, even if it could not normally support her weight. If the substance is damaging, such as lava or acid, the rogue only suffers damage for being near it, none for touching it. Upon gaining 17 ranks, the rogue can walk upon air itself, as if using an Air Walk spell. This technique persists for 1 minute per rogue level.
Perfectly Centered (16 ranks): The rogue is so adept at shifting her own weight and momentum in an instant, that it is impossible for her to be tripped or made prone by any attack or effect. Should she choose to drop prone or somehow end up prone, she is able to kip up to her feet as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The benefit of this technique is constant, requires no activation, and functions as long as the rogue is not paralyzed or unable to move. Learning this technique permanently costs the rogue one daily use of her Epic Skill (to power this ability).
Roll With It (13 ranks): A rogue who is damaged by any physical attack can activate this technique as an immediate action, ignoring an amount of damage equal to her Acrobatics check result. In addition, she may choose to move in a direction that is away from the opponent or direction of the attack (if it was ranged), up to 5 ft per 5 ranks in acrobatics. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Twisted Charge (5 ranks): The rogue, upon activating this ability, can make single turn of up to 90 degrees during one charge made that same round
Athletics (Climb + Jump)
Bounding Leap (12 ranks): The rogue is capable of graceful jumps that border on flight. Activating this ability is a move action, and includes making a jump. The jump has a maximum height of 5 ft per rank in Athletics and a maximum horizontal distance of 10 ft per rank in Athletics. This movement can exceed the rogue's speed and is traveled in the space of the single move action. If the jump brings the rogue into the air, she may hover in place and complete the rest of her turn there before harmlessly floating back down to the ground.
Monkey Climb (5 ranks): A rogue with this ability never loses her dexterity bonus to AC due to climbing and only needs one free hand to climb. She gains +5 ft reach for the purposes of being close enough to a surface to catch herself when falling, and the climb DC increase for attempting to do so is halved. The benefit of this technique is constant, requires no activation, and functions as long as the rogue is not paralyzed or unable to move. Learning this technique permanently costs the rogue one daily use of her Epic Skill (to power this ability).
Up the Walls (7 ranks): Upon activating this ability, a rogue can treat any non-horizontal surface as if it were ground until the end of her turn, able to take move actions, double move, run, charge, and so on up, down, or along a wall of any incline effortlessly. If the rogue does not reach a horizontal surface to stand on by the end of her turn, she falls, though she may use a climb check to catch herself, as normal.
Bluff
Mental Shield (10 ranks): Activating this ability causes it to persist for 24 hours. While it is active, if the rogue is targeted or within the area of any divination effect, the caster must succeed on a CL check of DC 11 + the Rogue's ranks in Bluff. If the caster fails this check, he is unaware any such resistance existed and the rogue simply does not detect at all. Upon gaining 16 ranks, the Rogue is immediately made aware of any divination effect used against her and what it does if the CL check fails. She may choose to falsely display in any fashion she likes rather than not be detected at all, such as detecting as the wrong alignment.
Modify Memory (16 ranks): The rogue is able to adjust a creature's recollection, as the spell, except you can modify up to 1 minute of memories per Rogue level and cannot allow the creature to recall with perfect clarity an actual event unless the Rogue experienced it herself. Activating this ability takes 1 round and a will save (DC of 10 + Bluff skill ranks + Intelligence modifier) negates it. This is non-magical, but is a mind-affecting compulsion effect and follows all other parameters of the spell.
Suggestion (15 ranks): By using this ability as a standard action, the rogue so cleverly and convincingly deceives a creature so as to affect it as if by the Suggestion spell. The victim receives a will save to resist, with a DC of 10 + Bluff skill ranks + Intelligence modifier. Upon gaining 20 ranks, the Rogue can mimic the effects of Mass Suggestion (one creature per rogue level) while using this. This ability is non-magical, but is a mind-affecting, language-dependent, compulsion effect.
Craft
Instant Mastery (any craft 9 ranks): By activating this ability, the rogue may move all his ranks in one craft skill to another craft skill for 10 min./level, or until he dismisses it (as a swift action).
Diplomacy
Evade Suspicion (8 ranks): When using Diplomacy to gather information, the rogue may spend one daily use of her epic skill to avoid any suspicions that might otherwise be aroused by someone pursuing sensitive information.
Fast Friends (12 ranks): A rogue may use this ability as a standard action to duplicate the effects of a Charm Person spell, with a CL equal to Rogue level. The victim receives a will save to resist, with a DC of 10 + Diplomacy skill ranks + Intelligence modifier. Upon gaining 17 ranks, the rogue can duplicate the effects of Charm Monster. This technique is non-magical, but is a mind-affecting charm effect.
Disable Device
Quick Disable (10 ranks): By using this ability before attempting to disable a trap or pick a lock, the rogue may do so as a move action. With 17 ranks, she can do so as a free action.
Disguise
Escape Artist
Contortionist (14 ranks): A rogue that activates this ability may, until the end of her turn, squeeze through impossibly small openings; this can be as small as 2 inches square for a Medium Rogue. Halve this limit for each size smaller than Medium; double it for each size category greater than Medium. If the Rogue has 19 ranks, she is able to instead use this technique to slip through a wall of force (including force cage, resilient sphere, and any other force barrier).
Double-Jointed (5 ranks): A Rogue with this technique gains the Constrict ability, dealing (if medium) 1d8 + 1 ½ times her strength modifier in damage each time she successfully grapples a creature. If small, the damage is 1d6, if large it is 2d6, and so forth. If she has at least 10 ranks, she also receives no AC penalties for grappling, pinning, or being pinned. The benefit of this technique is constant, requires no activation, and functions as long as the rogue is not paralyzed or unable to move. Learning this technique permanently costs the rogue one daily use of her Epic Skill (to power this ability).
Slippery (15 ranks): No bindings can hold a rogue! Upon activating this technique, the rogue gains Freedom of Movement, as the spell effect, for a number of rounds equal to her rogue level.
Fly
Handle Animal
Heal
Knowledge
Linguistics
Listen to This (8 ranks): By activating this ability while observing a target creature communicating, you are able to perfectly commit to memory what was said, even if you do not understand the language or are unable to successfully read lips. You may remember up to 1 continuous minute of communication per level and it stays fresh in your mind for 1 day.
Perception (Spot + Listen)
Perform
Profession
Ride
Sense Motive
Spellcraft
Stealth
Hide Another (10 ranks): A Rogue can activate this ability whenever making a Stealth check. She can then also roll for one ally (and one additional ally per 3 ranks above 10 she has in Stealth) within 30 ft, allowing the ally/allies to use her check result. Each activation lasts for each ally for 1 round per Rogue level or until a creature makes a perception check against the ally. This ability is suppressed (but does not end) while the ally is further than 30 ft from you, and the duration is not paused.
Survival
Swim
Thievery (Search + Sleight of Hand)
Use Magic Device[/sblock]
Note: I plan to houserule the groupings of certain skills. I put in () after the skill name any such changes for ease of reference. Feel free to move the techniques around as appropriate if you wish to keep PF's current groupings; the sub-skill each technique is based upon is pretty obvious, I think.
Changes besides skill groupings I plan to houserule that will have a siginificant impact on the Rogue, but are not technically part of the class:
[sblock]- Blinking allows you to sneak attack.
- You can sneak attack with splash weapons against a target you hit with the primary (not splash) damage.
- Acrobatics: Without 3 Acrobatics ranks, if you stand in an area that requires balance checks, you lose your dexterity and dodge bonuses to AC, even outside of your turn. Tumble DCs follow 3.5's rules (ie, base DC 15 and so forth, the enemy's CMD is irrelevant, etc...).
- Weapon Finesse: Any weapon that can be finessed can use the wielder's dexterity modifier instead of strength on attack rolls without need of this feat. This feat allows a creature to add his dexterity to damage with any light weapon or weapon with the finesse property instead of strength. You do not gain extra damage from wielding a weapon two-handed as you would with strength, and your damage is still modified by any strength penalty you may have (in addition to adding your dexterity modifier).
[/sblock]
So, what do you think?
Rogue changes:
[sblock]- Rogue and Ninja are one and the same class. Any class features, tricks, talents, or ki based upon wisdom or charisma are instead based on intelligence. Talents and Advanced Talents can be used to obtain options from both the Ninja Tricks and Rogue Talents lists and advanced lists.
- Rogue gains a Good Will save progression
- Sneak attack works under concealment but not total concealment.
- A Rogue gains a bonus to Initiative equal to half his Rogue level. Starting at level 8, a Rogue may choose (before rolling) to take a -10 penalty on his Initiative roll if there is a surprise round and he can act in it. By doing so, the Rogue gains a full round of actions in the surprise round. At level 16, a Rogue always gains a full round in the surprise round, without needing to take the penalty. At 20th level, a Rogue can always act in a surprise round.
- At first level, the Rogue gains either Trapfinding or Poison Use (character's choice)
- At 2nd level, the Rogue gains Evasion and a Ki Pool, with points per day equal to 1/2 Rogue level + Int modifier, and all options available to the Ninja.
- At 3rd level, the Rogue gains either Trap Sense or No Trace (character's choice)
- Every 3rd Rogue level, choose two skills. You gain the Skill Focus feat with these skills.
- At 6th level, the Rogue gains Light Steps.
- Epic Skill (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a Rogue's abilities have been honed to a point where she can accomplish utterly superhuman feats with her various skills. A number of times per day equal to ½ her level + intelligence modifier, she may use any one of the abilities below that she has learned. At 10th level, she learns 4 techniques. Every level thereafter, she gains two additional techniques to use. In order to learn a technique, the rogue must have the minimum skill ranks listed. Unless stated otherwise, activating any of these techniques is a free action.
- New Advanced Rogue Talent!
Diverse Training: A rogue selecting this advanced talent may use any epic skill technique. If it is not one she actually knows, it costs 2 daily uses of Epic Skill. The activation time is the same as for the specific technique, and the duration is 1 minute per rogue level, or the technique's duration, whichever is shorter. The rogue must have the required skill ranks to use a technique even through Diverse Training, and the benefits tied to ranks, if any, apply as normal.
[/sblock]
Epic Skill options:
[sblock]Acrobatics (Balance + Tumble)
Dervish Dance (7 ranks): The rogue is able to weave, somersault, and roll past countless foes flawlessly. Upon activating this ability, for a number of rounds equal to ranks in Acrobatics, the rogue can automatically succeed at any acrobatics checks to move through a creature's space or through its threatened area, with no reduction in speed, regardless of how many creatures she passes by, the added difficulty of the surface she is on, and so forth.
Landing Roll (8 ranks): The rogue is able to soften a fall by tumbling upon impact. Treat a fall as if it were 10 ft shorter per rogue level. This can eliminate falling damage completely. Upon gaining 18 ranks, the Rogue can use this ability to fall any distance without suffering harm. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can be used even if the rogue is flatfooted, and it protects her from a single fall.
Light Step (11 ranks): The rogue's agility and nimbleness is such that she can tread on any surface. Upon activating this ability, she is able to perfectly balance herself upon a solid surface of any width, even hair thin, without risk of failure. Upon gaining 14 ranks, she is able to tread upon the surface of any liquid or any solid surface, even if it could not normally support her weight. If the substance is damaging, such as lava or acid, the rogue only suffers damage for being near it, none for touching it. Upon gaining 17 ranks, the rogue can walk upon air itself, as if using an Air Walk spell. This technique persists for 1 minute per rogue level.
Perfectly Centered (16 ranks): The rogue is so adept at shifting her own weight and momentum in an instant, that it is impossible for her to be tripped or made prone by any attack or effect. Should she choose to drop prone or somehow end up prone, she is able to kip up to her feet as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The benefit of this technique is constant, requires no activation, and functions as long as the rogue is not paralyzed or unable to move. Learning this technique permanently costs the rogue one daily use of her Epic Skill (to power this ability).
Roll With It (13 ranks): A rogue who is damaged by any physical attack can activate this technique as an immediate action, ignoring an amount of damage equal to her Acrobatics check result. In addition, she may choose to move in a direction that is away from the opponent or direction of the attack (if it was ranged), up to 5 ft per 5 ranks in acrobatics. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Twisted Charge (5 ranks): The rogue, upon activating this ability, can make single turn of up to 90 degrees during one charge made that same round
Athletics (Climb + Jump)
Bounding Leap (12 ranks): The rogue is capable of graceful jumps that border on flight. Activating this ability is a move action, and includes making a jump. The jump has a maximum height of 5 ft per rank in Athletics and a maximum horizontal distance of 10 ft per rank in Athletics. This movement can exceed the rogue's speed and is traveled in the space of the single move action. If the jump brings the rogue into the air, she may hover in place and complete the rest of her turn there before harmlessly floating back down to the ground.
Monkey Climb (5 ranks): A rogue with this ability never loses her dexterity bonus to AC due to climbing and only needs one free hand to climb. She gains +5 ft reach for the purposes of being close enough to a surface to catch herself when falling, and the climb DC increase for attempting to do so is halved. The benefit of this technique is constant, requires no activation, and functions as long as the rogue is not paralyzed or unable to move. Learning this technique permanently costs the rogue one daily use of her Epic Skill (to power this ability).
Up the Walls (7 ranks): Upon activating this ability, a rogue can treat any non-horizontal surface as if it were ground until the end of her turn, able to take move actions, double move, run, charge, and so on up, down, or along a wall of any incline effortlessly. If the rogue does not reach a horizontal surface to stand on by the end of her turn, she falls, though she may use a climb check to catch herself, as normal.
Bluff
Mental Shield (10 ranks): Activating this ability causes it to persist for 24 hours. While it is active, if the rogue is targeted or within the area of any divination effect, the caster must succeed on a CL check of DC 11 + the Rogue's ranks in Bluff. If the caster fails this check, he is unaware any such resistance existed and the rogue simply does not detect at all. Upon gaining 16 ranks, the Rogue is immediately made aware of any divination effect used against her and what it does if the CL check fails. She may choose to falsely display in any fashion she likes rather than not be detected at all, such as detecting as the wrong alignment.
Modify Memory (16 ranks): The rogue is able to adjust a creature's recollection, as the spell, except you can modify up to 1 minute of memories per Rogue level and cannot allow the creature to recall with perfect clarity an actual event unless the Rogue experienced it herself. Activating this ability takes 1 round and a will save (DC of 10 + Bluff skill ranks + Intelligence modifier) negates it. This is non-magical, but is a mind-affecting compulsion effect and follows all other parameters of the spell.
Suggestion (15 ranks): By using this ability as a standard action, the rogue so cleverly and convincingly deceives a creature so as to affect it as if by the Suggestion spell. The victim receives a will save to resist, with a DC of 10 + Bluff skill ranks + Intelligence modifier. Upon gaining 20 ranks, the Rogue can mimic the effects of Mass Suggestion (one creature per rogue level) while using this. This ability is non-magical, but is a mind-affecting, language-dependent, compulsion effect.
Craft
Instant Mastery (any craft 9 ranks): By activating this ability, the rogue may move all his ranks in one craft skill to another craft skill for 10 min./level, or until he dismisses it (as a swift action).
Diplomacy
Evade Suspicion (8 ranks): When using Diplomacy to gather information, the rogue may spend one daily use of her epic skill to avoid any suspicions that might otherwise be aroused by someone pursuing sensitive information.
Fast Friends (12 ranks): A rogue may use this ability as a standard action to duplicate the effects of a Charm Person spell, with a CL equal to Rogue level. The victim receives a will save to resist, with a DC of 10 + Diplomacy skill ranks + Intelligence modifier. Upon gaining 17 ranks, the rogue can duplicate the effects of Charm Monster. This technique is non-magical, but is a mind-affecting charm effect.
Disable Device
Quick Disable (10 ranks): By using this ability before attempting to disable a trap or pick a lock, the rogue may do so as a move action. With 17 ranks, she can do so as a free action.
Disguise
Escape Artist
Contortionist (14 ranks): A rogue that activates this ability may, until the end of her turn, squeeze through impossibly small openings; this can be as small as 2 inches square for a Medium Rogue. Halve this limit for each size smaller than Medium; double it for each size category greater than Medium. If the Rogue has 19 ranks, she is able to instead use this technique to slip through a wall of force (including force cage, resilient sphere, and any other force barrier).
Double-Jointed (5 ranks): A Rogue with this technique gains the Constrict ability, dealing (if medium) 1d8 + 1 ½ times her strength modifier in damage each time she successfully grapples a creature. If small, the damage is 1d6, if large it is 2d6, and so forth. If she has at least 10 ranks, she also receives no AC penalties for grappling, pinning, or being pinned. The benefit of this technique is constant, requires no activation, and functions as long as the rogue is not paralyzed or unable to move. Learning this technique permanently costs the rogue one daily use of her Epic Skill (to power this ability).
Slippery (15 ranks): No bindings can hold a rogue! Upon activating this technique, the rogue gains Freedom of Movement, as the spell effect, for a number of rounds equal to her rogue level.
Fly
Handle Animal
Heal
Knowledge
Linguistics
Listen to This (8 ranks): By activating this ability while observing a target creature communicating, you are able to perfectly commit to memory what was said, even if you do not understand the language or are unable to successfully read lips. You may remember up to 1 continuous minute of communication per level and it stays fresh in your mind for 1 day.
Perception (Spot + Listen)
Perform
Profession
Ride
Sense Motive
Spellcraft
Stealth
Hide Another (10 ranks): A Rogue can activate this ability whenever making a Stealth check. She can then also roll for one ally (and one additional ally per 3 ranks above 10 she has in Stealth) within 30 ft, allowing the ally/allies to use her check result. Each activation lasts for each ally for 1 round per Rogue level or until a creature makes a perception check against the ally. This ability is suppressed (but does not end) while the ally is further than 30 ft from you, and the duration is not paused.
Survival
Swim
Thievery (Search + Sleight of Hand)
Use Magic Device[/sblock]
Note: I plan to houserule the groupings of certain skills. I put in () after the skill name any such changes for ease of reference. Feel free to move the techniques around as appropriate if you wish to keep PF's current groupings; the sub-skill each technique is based upon is pretty obvious, I think.
Changes besides skill groupings I plan to houserule that will have a siginificant impact on the Rogue, but are not technically part of the class:
[sblock]- Blinking allows you to sneak attack.
- You can sneak attack with splash weapons against a target you hit with the primary (not splash) damage.
- Acrobatics: Without 3 Acrobatics ranks, if you stand in an area that requires balance checks, you lose your dexterity and dodge bonuses to AC, even outside of your turn. Tumble DCs follow 3.5's rules (ie, base DC 15 and so forth, the enemy's CMD is irrelevant, etc...).
- Weapon Finesse: Any weapon that can be finessed can use the wielder's dexterity modifier instead of strength on attack rolls without need of this feat. This feat allows a creature to add his dexterity to damage with any light weapon or weapon with the finesse property instead of strength. You do not gain extra damage from wielding a weapon two-handed as you would with strength, and your damage is still modified by any strength penalty you may have (in addition to adding your dexterity modifier).
[/sblock]
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