Starfox
Hero
Why? Simulationism? Being prone is actually a good way to dodge explosions, as any infantryman will tell you.
Pathfinder 1E Rogue with ranged weapon and standing from prone
- Thread starter brunswick
- Start date
Why? Simulationism? Being prone is actually a good way to dodge explosions, as any infantryman will tell you.
knottyprof
First Post
Prone does not necessarily equal helpless, especially in the scenario given. In this case I agree that the rogue's evasion is just as effective while prone in this situation as it would be if he was standing up.
adembroski
First Post
Why is because I misread evasion and for some reason my mind equated prone with helpless. My mistake.
I tend to err on the side of restrictiveness because the eventual correction of misinterpretations of the rules is a lot easier to deal with when you're not taking away a given players favored tactics. My default answer to anything is "no" and, yes, there is a lot of simulationism in that, but it's also an easier way to manage future changes in the campaign.
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When it comes to combat and utility, the Ninja far outstrips the rogue.
Rogues don't get
- Feather Fall (feather fall)
- Forgotten Trick (assess to any other Ninja trick)
- Shadow Clone (mirror image)
- Vanishing Trick (invisibility)
- Assassinate (better than the assassin)
- Ghost Step (walk through walls)
- Invisible Blade (greater invisibility)
- See the unseen (see invisibility)
- Unbound steps (air walk)
Yet the ninja can take any of the rogue's tricks. Hardly seems equal.
knottyprof
First Post
Not arguing that Paizo completely over powered the Ninja class, just stating the obvious that the Ninja is basically a Rogue that focuses on stealth while loosing the trap finding/sense aspect of the class.
Take a rogue add a lot of mystical (magical) effects that revolve around stealth and call it a ninja. I would have rather seen a rogue archetype than a whole new class.
But again, to the OP the idea that the rogue is getting away with murder with the pop up, shoot, and duck back down routine doesn't seem fair to other players. So a sniper type rogue can be effective and I am sure an invisible ninja that does the same thing would be just as effective. I don't know if I would allow the character to get sneak attack damage after the first attack as the opponent would know that there is someone shooting at him (unless the rogue actually moved to a different location).
Just looking at the original 3.5 Ninja (from Complete Adventurer) and comparing it to the Pathfinder version it is obvious they basically carried most of the abilities over while dropping the trapfinding ability.
Take a rogue add a lot of mystical (magical) effects that revolve around stealth and call it a ninja. I would have rather seen a rogue archetype than a whole new class.
But again, to the OP the idea that the rogue is getting away with murder with the pop up, shoot, and duck back down routine doesn't seem fair to other players. So a sniper type rogue can be effective and I am sure an invisible ninja that does the same thing would be just as effective. I don't know if I would allow the character to get sneak attack damage after the first attack as the opponent would know that there is someone shooting at him (unless the rogue actually moved to a different location).
Just looking at the original 3.5 Ninja (from Complete Adventurer) and comparing it to the Pathfinder version it is obvious they basically carried most of the abilities over while dropping the trapfinding ability.
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
Before they released the ninja, my expectations were that Paizo were going to base the ninja off the monk class, especially since SpiderWalk and CloudWalk feats based off the monk's slow fall class feature appeared in the APG. Those feats seem so 'ninja-y' to me.
My plans are to release a Way of the Shinobi class/faction supplement for the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) by Rite Publishing, but that won't be until sometime in 2014, since this year all our time is wrapped up in final development and rough draft of the Kaidan setting's GM's and Player's Guides, scheduled for release in Oct/Nov 2013. When I do get to that ninja supplement, we'll no doubt include several ninja archetypes, but like our Way of the Samurai release, the supplement won't be limited to the ninja class, rather focusing on stealthy versions of several classes, including: monk, ranger, samurai and sorcerer. We'll probably do a ninja based prestige class as well.
My plans are to release a Way of the Shinobi class/faction supplement for the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) by Rite Publishing, but that won't be until sometime in 2014, since this year all our time is wrapped up in final development and rough draft of the Kaidan setting's GM's and Player's Guides, scheduled for release in Oct/Nov 2013. When I do get to that ninja supplement, we'll no doubt include several ninja archetypes, but like our Way of the Samurai release, the supplement won't be limited to the ninja class, rather focusing on stealthy versions of several classes, including: monk, ranger, samurai and sorcerer. We'll probably do a ninja based prestige class as well.
Starfox
Hero
Stealth is part of the move action. If you move and have either cover or concealment, you can try to use Stealth. As long as your attack comes before the movement portion of your turn, there is nothing to prevent a character from using Stealth after attacking.
This is how I'd judge it (I am very prone to house rules).
Being prone is similar enough to having cover that I'd allow a character to use it for stealth, as long as opponents are not too close (withing reach of a reach weapon for your size category seems reasonable - it is the angle of observation that matters, and taller creatures have both a better visual angle and longer reach. So 2x normal reach).
The big question is if "falling prone" or a 5 ft. step is considered movement. Since Stealth is a part of movement, this is vital. I'd say it is - the rogue does need the help.
If you make a full attack, you'd get Sneak Attack bonuses on all your attacks (all the attacks are part of the same action). But there is a downside - opponents will be fairly certain of your position as you most likely won't have moved more than 5 ft. Just moving to your last known position is likely to bring you out of cover.
This is how I'd judge it (I am very prone to house rules).
Being prone is similar enough to having cover that I'd allow a character to use it for stealth, as long as opponents are not too close (withing reach of a reach weapon for your size category seems reasonable - it is the angle of observation that matters, and taller creatures have both a better visual angle and longer reach. So 2x normal reach).
The big question is if "falling prone" or a 5 ft. step is considered movement. Since Stealth is a part of movement, this is vital. I'd say it is - the rogue does need the help.
If you make a full attack, you'd get Sneak Attack bonuses on all your attacks (all the attacks are part of the same action). But there is a downside - opponents will be fairly certain of your position as you most likely won't have moved more than 5 ft. Just moving to your last known position is likely to bring you out of cover.
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