Rogues and the Alarm Spell

[Saeviomagy]

Yes, I stated that earlier. But being a component of a trap doesn't necessarily make it a trap.

A piece of rope can be used to trigger a trap (tripwire). Are all pieces of rope now considered traps?

No, but the bell trap in sunless citadel certainly is. The goblins have one in the door right before the area they've filled with caltrops.

It's a trap, it can be searched for, it requires disable device to avoid, yet it doesn't have a directly deleterious effect, merely an indirect one (alerting the goblins).

Much like an alarm spell would alert either everyone nearby, or it's creator.

So - the "it's not a trap because it causes no harm" line is a bit out.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

A piece of rope can be used to trigger a trap (tripwire). Are all pieces of rope now considered traps?

If used as part of a mechanism that has a clear trigger--> effect, mechanical or magic, yes. That does mean that, to someone who has not seen one before, an innocent mechanism such as an elevator or a toaster may look "like a trap" until studied with more than just a Search skill.

If I use a piece of string to trigger a bell to ring, is that somehow mystically unsearchable and impossible to disable because it is "not a trap". But if I tie that string to a canister of poison gas instead, the Rogue skills do work?

The common sense answer is that they are both traps, albeit of different kinds. To rule otherwise just creates a class of non-trap traps that you have to write an entire new set of rules for.

 

[Thanee]

When Alarm is used as part of a trap, the rogue must somehow be able to circumvent it to get close to the mechanism, otherwise it would be impossible to disarm the trap.

I think it's just reasonable to assume, that this also works, if the Alarm spell is used by itself, as there is no real difference then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

The common sense answer is that they are both traps, albeit of different kinds. To rule otherwise just creates a class of non-trap traps that you have to write an entire new set of rules for.

What new rules would those be? The current rules already cover removing the alarm spell without the use of a rogue.

 

[Caliban]

When Alarm is used as part of a trap, the rogue must somehow be able to circumvent it to get close to the mechanism, otherwise it would be impossible to disarm the trap.

I think it's just reasonable to assume, that this also works, if the Alarm spell is used by itself, as there is no real difference then.

Bye
Thanee

But there is a real difference, as I pointed out already.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, I've seen that, but I don't see the difference (well, I see what you mean with the difference, of course - trap component vs actual trap).

What makes the Alarm spell used as a proximity trigger really different to the Alarm spell used alone, which triggers an alarm once someone enters its radius? Isn't that exactly the same thing, the trigger method?

The only real difference is in what happens after the trigger, but that's replaceable, anyways. And the range is different, but that only shifts the trigger point to another location.

Why can the rogue get past the first, but not the latter, if both use the exact same method of detection?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

Yeah, I've seen that, but I don't see the difference (well, I see what you mean with the difference, of course - trap component vs actual trap).

What makes the Alarm spell used as a proximity trigger really different to the Alarm spell used alone, which triggers an alarm once someone enters its radius? Isn't that exactly the same thing, the trigger method?

The only real difference is in what happens after the trigger, but that's replaceable, anyways. And the range is different, but that only shifts the trigger point to another location.

Why can the rogue get past the first, but not the latter, if both use the exact same method of detection?

Bye
Thanee

I'm actually referring to page 68 of the DMG, where it states that an alarm spell used as a proximity trigger can only cover the area that the trap itself protects, as opposed to it's normal radius.

It's a real difference between the normal version of the alarm spell and the version used in a trap. As I pointed out earlier...

 

[MerakSpielman]

I think if the Alarm spell by itself was intended to be considered a magical trap, it would have said so explicitly, somewhere. The books do not say this, and I don't think it was a simple oversight. I don't think it even occurred to the designers to classify Alarm as a trap.

 

[Thanee]

So you cannot find the alarm trigger, but only the trap, which overlaps with it, so to say. And you can only disarm the trap, if you can reach it from outside that area. However, as soon as the area is entered or even touched, the trap triggers, as that is what the Alarm spell does. So you actually have to disarm it, without touching it in any way, right? Does that even work?

Well, magic trap disarming is weird, anyways...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

I think if the Alarm spell by itself was intended to be considered a magical trap, it would have said so explicitly, somewhere. The books do not say this, and I don't think it was a simple oversight. I don't think it even occurred to the designers to classify Alarm as a trap.

Wasn't there a post in this thread at the beginning that mentioned the Alarm spell as an example in the Traps section of the DMG?