D&D 5E Rogues are Awesome. Is it the Tasha's Effect?

[Zardnaar]

Uh you do realize that two weapon fighting ALSO costs your bonus action, right?

As for steady aim, I use a combination of hiding and sniping (ranged attack so no cantrip), familiar for advantage on melee attack and cantrip (can then use cunning action), steady aim and cantrip (cannot use cunning action), something else like faerie fire for advantage (can use cantrip and cunning action) or just not attacking with advantage (can use cantrip and cunning action but higher miss chance). It all depends on the situation but most of the time I do not find it's a very high cost to use steady aim.

Damn you're bad at being a Rogue player. Real rogue players spend that bonus action to be at least 50' away where they can fail to qualify for a sneak attack then suck up a -2 penality the shoot through an ally.

Also they're to far away to support the fighter or split the damage up reducing incoming damage.

Gotta snipe for that 1d6+3 or 4 damage and avoid taking any damage whatsoever!!!.

Additionally you can run away and survive if it's a TPK as a bonus action.

Mistwell bad@rogueing.

 

[Flamestrike]

Agree with the rest of what you posted, but not this. Why do you need a feat? 3rd level AT can take GFB and BB both and has steady aim.

Generally as a Rogue need to - as in everyone other than AT.

And honestly, I think the utility of other cantrips is better than the marginal DPR increase of the damage cantrips in any event, but that's just personal.

 

[auburn2]

Uh you do realize that two weapon fighting ALSO costs your bonus action, right?

As for steady aim, I use a combination of hiding and sniping (ranged attack so no cantrip), familiar for advantage on melee attack and cantrip (can then use cunning action), steady aim and cantrip (cannot use cunning action), something else like faerie fire for advantage (can use cantrip and cunning action) or just not attacking with advantage (can use cantrip and cunning action but higher miss chance). It all depends on the situation but most of the time I do not find it's a very high cost to use steady aim.

Yes. I said that in posts above. In the statement you quoted my point was that I don't think steady aim is a huge buff for an archer Rogue or a high elf Rogue because of the opportunity cost.

TWF absolutely eliminates cunning action and as such, like steady aim it is a high price to pay. Like steady aim it is in the bag of tricks and is an option for any Rogue on a given turn depending on the situation.

The loss of BA and movement for a Rogue is a big loss to cause advantage. Totally advisable in some situations, but still a high price.

 

[auburn2]

Damn you're bad at being a Rogue player. Real rogue players spend that bonus action to be at least 50' away where they can fail to qualify for a sneak attack then suck up a -2 penality the shoot through an ally.

Also they're to far away to support the fighter or split the damage up reducing incoming damage.

Gotta snipe for that 1d6+3 or 4 damage and avoid taking any damage whatsoever!!!.

Additionally you can run away and survive if it's a TPK as a bonus action.

Mistwell bad@rogueing.

In most cases, I usually dump constitution with a Rogue, so I do usually try to stay out of harms way using my bonus actions to get cover, hide or otherwise make attacks on me difficult. The fighter can make another character like the wizard share his damage ... or isn't that what clerics and paladins are supposed to do anyway?

By boosting the other stats I have decent saves across most of the things other than attacks that will target me and a good athletics, usually with expertise, to get out of tough situations where I am cornered. Since constitution is the only ability with no corresponding skill, this also makes me better across more skills with a lot of them having proficiency to boot. If I give up a couple DPR that is ok.

In the last fight I had with a Rogue the enemy took the Ranger, the Paladin and the Fighter all to zero and I escaped untouched. My contribution to the fight was: 1. starting it by failing an intimidation check. 2. doing 10 points of damage over five rounds and 3. foregoing two attacks to stabilize the Ranger during the fight which kept him from dying. In my defense I got generally bad rolls, and only our warlock actually did more damage than I did (although he did a lot more).

The biggest problem I have found with steady aim and sniping is what you allude to here - if you use it on a ranged attack you are often getting a -2 or -5 to hit (although you do get advantage). That doesn't mean it is never useful though, nor that it is less useful than a different attack you might do without advantage.

You can absolutely run away and survive if it is going to be a TPK. I've done that once total in 5e. I don't understand what that sarcastic comment is even supposed to be about. Do you not think that is a HUGE advantage to being a Rogue? If the battle is clearly going to be lost what kind of character stays to the bitter end? Maybe that Lawful Good Paladin, but most characters being role played right should flee. The rogue is just a lot better at it.

 

[Blue]

Uh you do realize that two weapon fighting ALSO costs your bonus action, right?

Your statement isn't quite right or quite wrong. TWF only costs you your bonus action if you miss or if you really want to add on inconsequential damage after a hit.

If you hit with your first attack, you are free to use that bonus action other ways, such as disengaging. You are not locked into the second attack. Considering the various benefits of Cunning Action for bonus action usage, even if TWF is not quite as much DPR as the cantrips at levels usually played (1-10), 2/3th of the time having that bonus action available for a rogue (using the classic 65% chance to hit) is a big benefit.

Basically, both are valid paths. One favors flexibility at the cost of a little DPR, the favors DPR and the cantrip rider, but requires specifics (AT, high elf, or feat) to enable it.

EDIT: the italic "with your first attack" I added later to help clarity when my meaning wasn't obvious.

 

[Blue]

Damn you're bad at being a Rogue player. Real rogue players spend that bonus action to be at least 50' away where they can fail to qualify for a sneak attack then suck up a -2 penality the shoot through an ally.

Also they're to far away to support the fighter or split the damage up reducing incoming damage.

Gotta snipe for that 1d6+3 or 4 damage and avoid taking any damage whatsoever!!!.

Additionally you can run away and survive if it's a TPK as a bonus action.

Mistwell bad@rogueing.

Ooo look, sarcasm. From someone who pretending to never heard of kiting, assumes that because a fragile chassis may want to avoid a particular enemy that they haven't already absorbed some hits, and that there is no possibility to move to support other characters, like the squishies. Also pretending that disengage can only be used defensively and never to go through an enemy front-line to get to their casters and help everyone. Or to disengage from one opponent you would only be doing 1d6+3 against to engage another foe with an ally so you can pull your weight.

Now, if you really are ignorant I will retract my comments that you are pretending to not know these things so you can make statements you know are false in order to get your point across. Just let us know.

 

[billd91]

Your statement isn't quite right or quite wrong. TWF only costs you your bonus action if you miss or if you really want to add on inconsequential damage after a hit.

PH page 195 says you're wrong about that.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ooo look, sarcasm. From someone who pretending to never heard of kiting, assumes that because a fragile chassis may want to avoid a particular enemy that they haven't already absorbed some hits, and that there is no possibility to move to support other characters, like the squishies. Also pretending that disengage can only be used defensively and never to go through an enemy front-line to get to their casters and help everyone. Or to disengage from one opponent you would only be doing 1d6+3 against to engage another foe with an ally so you can pull your weight.

Now, if you really are ignorant I will retract my comments that you are pretending to not know these things so you can make statements you know are false in order to get your point across. Just let us know.

Not that fragile. Your hit dice us a d8 and once you max dex AC 17 base is only one lower. Uncanny dodge.

Throw a 14 in your con score.

S&D always rewards killing stuff faster, get in there you've also got hit dice to use.
. If you're below half hp by all means snipe.

If it turns into a TPK if you're being efficient you may have avoided that had you been in the front.

If you're the sole survivor the campaign is essentially over anyway may as well go down with the rest. In my campaigns a sole survivor would likely be retired anyway everyone roll up new PCs.

 

[auburn2]

PH page 195 says you're wrong about that.

No it doesn't -
"When you take the attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you are holding in one hand, you CAN use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon ...."

It says you can use your BA for that, not that you must use your bonus action for that. So it is totally RAW to wade in with 2 short swords, hit with one of them on your attack action and then decide to use your BA for something else like cunning action or really anything else you can do with a BA.

 

[Zardnaar]

No it doesn't -
"When you take the attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you are holding in one hand, you CAN use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon ...."

It says you can use your BA for that, not that you must use your bonus action for that. So it is totally RAW to wade in with 2 short swords, hit with one of them on your attack action and then decide to use your BA for something else like cunning action or really anything else you can do with a BA.

This it's really only if you cast BB or GFB which changes things. Steady aim buffs them and more or less doubles your chance to crit do it's better than dual wielding.