D&D 5E (2014) Rogue's Cunning action: Double dash, etc.

[bganon]

Yeah, Usain Bolt was timed at over 40 feet per second. Even a 6th grader can run the 100m in 13 seconds, which amounts to 25 feet per second. Kids can do 1K runs at 15 feet per second, which is what the Rogue is achieving with a "double dash".

 

[redrick]

Yeah, Usain Bolt was timed at over 40 feet per second. Even a 6th grader can run the 100m in 13 seconds, which amounts to 25 feet per second. Kids can do 1K runs at 15 feet per second, which is what the Rogue is achieving with a "double dash".

To be fair, 100m sprints and 1k runs are performed on a flat track with gentle turns. You are running in the same direction the whole time. That's pretty different from the assumed movement in combat — natural ground, possibly with light obstructions (though not difficult terrain), constant changing of direction, looking over one's shoulder, probably a lot of side-stepping, and little to no built-up momentum. Oh, and you're wearing a lot more than running shorts and Nikes. The dash action assumes that you are moving for the complete 6 seconds of the round, but it's a much more complicated form of movement than a "dash" on a track.

A mechanic for characters to actually "run" in the sense of moving as fast as you can in a more a less straight line seems totally reasonable, though maybe our military folks might have experience with this — how fast can you run in combat footwear with a weapon and a 40-pound pack?

 

[d20knight]

Game-wise, unless I am sorely mistaken, Rogues have never been thematically/historically been the class with the 'fast movement speed' shtick. And I will understand why other DM's will interpret it differently. I just don't think Rogues have thematically needed anything else aside from backstabby-stabbity, skill monkeyness, and shenanigans.

The new rogue is a good representative of the thief/rogue of previous edition. The triple dash --- while built into the 3rd edition as full round run, was never exclusively a Rogue's ability.

But hey. I'm just one guy, who thinks about what an ability was intending it to do.

I am sensing a lot of love for the triple dash. I just don't see it - in game history, intent, and flavor.

I still stand behind the ruling - Bonus Action: Dash does not stack on Dash. Rogues never needed it. Flavor from previous edition? Didn't see it either. Intent -- this is where I am not clear. But all I am asking for is that IF a DM rules to go against the stacking - you give them their due, and understand why they did it. Implement it at your own game table, or find another DM - it's fine really. Just respect the guy that rules contrary to stacking.

If your DM allows it - I'm happy for you. If your DM does not - at least I can say I understand why he did it. That's all it really is.

DM'ng and RPG's very nature is subject to individual interpretations.

 

[d20knight]

How else are the rogues going get to fix the sprinting competition at the local festival? ☺

That's where 'taking covert precautions' come in for a Rogue.

 

[Li Shenron]

Either that, or you need to find yourself a different game...

What?

 

[Chocolategravy]

Double dash is perfectly viable rules and logic wise... 90ft per 6 seconds is still slow...

Your rational would apply to non-rogues as well, but as non-rogues can't do this, it doesn't make sense. Moreover the elephant in the room is that rogues can somehow move faster after initiative has been rolled than before.

 

[Coredump]

Yeah, Usain Bolt was timed at over 40 feet per second. Even a 6th grader can run the 100m in 13 seconds, which amounts to 25 feet per second. Kids can do 1K runs at 15 feet per second, which is what the Rogue is achieving with a "double dash".

The issue is not the actual speed, but the Relative speed.

the PCs see the enemy across the field, the Ranger in leather armor and the Rogue in leather armor both try and get into melee range. For whatever reason...the Rogue can cover 50% more ground every round.


To me, like a lot of things in DnD, the mechanic works just fine in the 'normal' situations it was designed for (like standard combat) but not in other 'edge case' scenarios. (like running across a field to get into melee)

 

[seebs]

Dash isn't "stacking" any more than dash "stacks" with your move. You take the dash action and you can move up to your speed. It's not multiplying your movement speed. It's a separate action which moves you. If you take that action twice, you move twice.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Game-wise, unless I am sorely mistaken, Rogues have never been thematically/historically been the class with the 'fast movement speed' shtick. And I will understand why other DM's will interpret it differently. I just don't think Rogues have thematically needed anything else aside from backstabby-stabbity, skill monkeyness, and shenanigans.

In the older versions of the game, back before backstab was a reliable ability, your movement speed was severely hindered by any sort of medium or heavy armor. The thief was faster than the fighter, but primarily for this reason. Note that heavy armor in 5E does not provide any penalty to movement speed.

Similarly, back in the day, there was a huge difference between a d8 longsword and a d12 greataxe. Sure, it's only an average of two points, but you weren't adding much from Strength (if anything) and there weren't really many ways to increase your damage. In later editions, those two points of damage are less meaningful in light of the +5 from Strength that every fighter is expected to end up with, so they needed a different mechanic in order to represent the damage-dealing disparity of the two weapons. In 3.5 and 5E, that difference comes in the form of Power Attack - a different mechanic, intended to better reinforce the old trope in light of new realities.

Which is the point of the Rogue's ability to Double Dash - to better reinforce the old trope, in light of new realities.

 

[Iosue]

And to head off the obvious objection, sure, magic-users were unarmored and theoretically highly mobile, too. But back in the day magic-users couldn't move and cast at the same time. So they tried to stay well away, out of danger. Meanwhile the thief needed to actually be behind the enemy to use Backstab, so they needed to be highly mobile, outflanking the enemy to come in from behind.