Role Playing in China

[Mr. Kaze]

I already saw it mentioned earlier in the thread, but I'd love to emphasize Barry Hughart's Bridge of Birds -- it's the most interesting and enjoyable book I've read in about as long as I can remember. The other books in the series Master Li and Number Ten Ox (collected in a single volume available from http://www.studiofoglio.com/ a couple of years ago or probably http://www.powells.com where I've seen it on the shelves) are relatively boring by comparison (or I just have silly-high standards), but Bridge of Birds is an awesome adventure story for a Chinese-styled mythological setting with memorable villians both social and supernatural, and interesting traps and solutions. Two thumbs up on that one.

Cheers,
::Kaze (also vouches for the combat-niftiness of the films Twin Dragons and the circa 1992 (not 1970-something) Iron Monkey)

 

[johnsemlak]

What complicates things further is the frequency of idiomatic expressions drawn from classical and contemporary literary, religious, and political texts. Most people in Taiwan and China learn Chinese through the memorization of these texts -- which in turn become commonplaces that all native speakers are familiar with. So, by referencing a 4 or 5 character line from a commonly recalled text, native speakers of Chinese can communicate a wealth of information. These idioms then can be used to neatly sum up a complicated situation by referencing an already known and studied text.

It'd be like us looking at a couple and saying "They are so 'Romeo and Juliet'" -- at once implying a deep romantic relationship and at the same time hinting at an eventual tragic ending. If it were already known that the couple's parents hated each other for some reason and disapproved of their relationship, the use of the reference would be even more warranted. And yet, all that is necessary to say is "Romeo and Juliet".

Remember the Star Trek TNG episode where there was a race of people whose entire communication was references to well known stories/texts?

I think this happens in our own cultures as well anyway. For example, references to Romeo and Juliet often do communicate love or affection in English.


sorry,this is my second hijack from the thread's topic

 

[Neil Aitken]

Try Terry Pratchett's "Interesting Times" as well -- very funny stuff

 

[Jeph]

I would just like to take a minute to pimp Pagoda, the wuxia role-playing game. Kung fu action amidst spurts of melodrama in ancient China! A free version is linked to in my sig, and the (expanded and revised) game will be included as part of the No Press Anthology from Burning Wheel Press coming out at Origins.

[/pimp]
--Jeff

 

[JimAde]

Because that's how you spell it in the Pinyin system, the official method of romanization created and used in the PRC by its government since 1979.

Now that's a good answer. It also explains why all these things were spelled differently in English when I was a kid. Thanks!

Now the question is, why don't we write the country's name Qaina?

(Just to clarify, yes that was a joke. It just wasn't very funny...)

 

[Michael Tree]

Now the question is, why don't we write the country's name Qaina?

(Just to clarify, yes that was a joke. It just wasn't very funny...)

To answer your joke question seriously: because 'China' isn't the name of the country. 'China' is just an english word of confusing origin that refers to the country of Zhong Guo. It's the same reason why we don't spell Germany the German way: because the German way of spelling Germany is 'Deutschland.'

 

[tarchon]

What Mandarin has is a set order: STPVO

Subject-Time-Place-Verb-Object

But while the order is set, there are still thousands of variations as to which elements you include or leave out, which clauses you create, how nested you want to make a statement, and what you can assume from context.

If that were true, it would be a very simple grammar, but Mandarin syntax is vastly more complex than that. I've only had a year of university level Mandarin, but STPVO sentences are maybe the first 4 weeks of class, and that's not really a very good model to begin with (Ss and Os don't work quite the way they do in English, and, come to think of it, Ts, Ps, and Vs don't either). I've studied close to 20 languages and Mandarin impresses me as having one of the wilder syntactic jungles among them.

Re another question, Q and CH (and X and SH) are both used because the sounds really are different in some dialects . Many English speakers just can't hear the difference because much of it depends on a phonetic feature that doesn't occur in English.
They could be viewed as allophones, but some very significant dialects make CH into C while maintaining the distinction between Q and C, so it makes sense to use separate symbols for them if only to accomodate the variation in local versions of Mandarin.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

There were a couple of references to Three Kingdoms. Go to www.threekingdoms.com and download the story at the bottom. It is not difficult to read and there's very little "Chinglish" in it. I don't speak a word of Chinese and had no problem reading it. It's a lot easier (and a lot more interesting) to read than Shakespeare.

Keeping the Zhangs straight may be a bit confusing, but the book always uses the character's full name. I think only two or three characters are every referred to by nickname, although in a few areas everyone gets called "General". (Hint: the first time they are referring to either He Jin or Yuan Shao.)

Note that Rot3K is not perfectly historically accurate. It's based on "Ambitions of the Three Kingdoms" which is about 70% historically accurate.

Next, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/three_kingdoms/ the yahoo group for www.romancingcathay.com, sign up (it's free, Chuan Lin will always accept you) and see about downloading RTK06. Note the 6... very important. You might even be able to download it without signing up, but it's better to sign up. That quarterly issue has a short adventure in it, and you can even find a Three Kingdoms hero in it.

It's none of these three heroes, though:

Cao Cao (Charismatic Hero 7/Smart Hero 5/Soldier 4): CR 16; Medium
Humanoid (human), HD 12d6+4d10–16; hp 51; Mas 11; Init +1; Spd 25
ft.; Defense 24 (+1 Dex, +6 class, +5 chain mail, +2 heavy shield),
touch 17, flat-footed 17; BAB +8; Grap +8; Atk "Trust in God"
mastercraft (+1 hit) sword +10/+5 melee (1d8+2); Space/Reach 5 ft./5
ft.; SA weapon focus (longsword), weapon specialization (longsword);
SQ tactical aid (+3); AL Kingdom of Wei; SV Fort +6, Ref +10, Will
+7; AP 8; Rep +9; Str 10, Dex 12, Con 8, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 17.
Occupation: Academic (bonus class skills: Craft (writing), Knowledge
(history), Knowledge (tactics))
Skills: Bluff +22, Craft (writing) +19, Decipher Script +5, Diplomacy
+15, Disguise +5, Gamble +7, Handle Animal +13, Intimidate +12,
Knowledge (behavioral sciences) +13, Knowledge (business) +13,
Knowledge (civics) +13, Knowledge (current events) +13, Knowledge
(earth and life sciences) +8, Knowledge (history) +19, Knowledge
(physical sciences) +8, Knowledge (tactics) +30, Knowledge (theology
and philosophy) +8, Listen +5, Navigate +7, Perform (sing) +8,
Profession (soldier) +5, Research +10, Ride +11, Sense Motive +6,
Spot +5, Survival +5
Languages: Mandarin
Feats: Archaic Weapons Proficency, Armor Proficiency (light, medium),
Deceptive, Educated (Knowledge (history), Knowledge (tactics)),
Endurance, Improved Damage Threshold, Improved Initiative, Iron Will,
Lightning Reflexes, Mounted Combat, Renown, Skill Focus (Ride)
Talents (Charismatic Hero): Coordinate, Greater Inspiration, Fast-
Talk, Inspiration.
Talents (Smart Hero): Plan (+8), Savant (Knowledge (tactics) +5),
Trick (DC 18).
Possessions: "Trust in God" mastercraft (+1 hit) longsword, chain
mail, heavy shield, fighting robe, heavy warhorse.

Sun Ce (Strong Hero 7/Soldier 5): CR 12; Medium Humanoid (human), HD 7d8+5d10+15; hp 78; Mas 12; Init +1; Spd 20 ft. (30 ft. without armor); Defense 23 (+1 Dex, +5 chain mail, +7 class), touch 18, flat-footed 15; BAB +12; Grap +20; Atk lance +18 melee (1d8+11/19-20/x3); Full Atk lance +18/+13/+8 melee (1d8+8/19-20/x3); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with lance); SA improved critical, weapon focus (lance), weapon specialization (lance); SQ tactical aid; AL Kingdom of Wu; SV Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +2; AP 6; Rep +2; Str 18, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 12.
Occupation: Military (bonus class skills: Knowledge (tactics) and Navigate; bonus feat: Archaic Weapons Proficiency)
Skills: Diplomacy +6, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (civics) +3, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (theology and religion) +3, Knowledge (tactics) +7, Navigate +2, Profession (sailor) +4, Profession (soldier) +4, Ride +3*, Sense Motive +1.
Feats: Archaic Weapons Proficiency (B), Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Combat Expertise, Combat Martial Arts (B), Defensive Martial Arts, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple (B), Mounted Combat, Power Attack (B), Toughness.
Talents (Strong Hero): Advanced Melee Smash, Extreme Effort.
Possessions: Mastercraft lance, chain mail, helmet, two half-spears.

Taishi Ci (Fast Hero 5/Strong Hero 4/Soldier 3): CR 12; Medium Humanoid (human), HD 9d8+3d10+12; hp 72; Mas 12; Init +3; Spd 40 ft.; Defense 27 (+3 Dex, +4 chain shirt, +10 class), touch 23, flat-footed 14; BAB +10; Grap +13; Atk lance +15 melee (1d8+8/x3) or longbow +14 ranged (1d8+3/x3); Full Atk lance +15/+10 melee (1d8+7/x3) or longbow +14/+9 ranged (1d8+3/x3); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with lance); SA weapon focus (lance), weapon specialization (lance); AL Liu Yao; SV Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +4; AP 6; Rep +1; Str 16, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 11.
Occupation: Military (bonus class skills: Navigate and Survival; bonus feat: Armor Proficiency (light))
Skills: Craft (writing) +5, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (tactics) +5, Navigate +6, Profession (soldier) +5, Ride +13*, Spot +13, Survival +6
Feats: Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Armor Proficiency (light) (B), Cleave, Combat Expertise (B), Dead Aim, Dodge, Far Shot, Improved Disarm (B), Improved Grapple, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack.
Talents (Fast Hero): Evasion, Improved Increased Speed.
Talents (Strong Hero): Improved Melee Smash.
Possessions: Mastercraft lance, half-spear, chain shirt, mastercraft longbow, quiver with 20 arrows.

Now having seen all he wished, Sun Ce thought it time to return and wheeled round his horse. But when he was going over the summit, someone shouted, "Stay, Sun Ce!"

Sun Ce turned. Two horsemen were coming at full speed down the next hill. Sun Ce halted and drew up his little escort right and left, he himself with his spear ready.

"Which is Sun Ce?" shouted Taishi Ci.

"Who are you?" was the reply.

"I, Taishi Ci of Laihuang, come to take him prisoner."

"Then I am he," said Sun Ce, laughing. "Come both of you together. I am not afraid of you. If I were, I should not be Sun Ce!"

"You and all your crowd come on, and I will not blench!" cried Taishi Ci putting his horse at a gallop and setting his spear.

Sun Ce braced himself for the shock, and the battle began. Fifty bouts were fought and still neither combatant had the advantage. Sun Ce's commanders whispered to each other their admiration and amazement. Taishi Ci saw that the spearmanship of his opponent showed no weak point whereby he could gain the advantage, so he decided to resort to guile. Feigning defeat he would lead Sun Ce to pursue. Taishi Ci however did not retire along the road by which he had come, but took a path leading around the hill instead of over it. His antagonist followed, shouting, "He who retreats is no worthy soldier!"

But Taishi Ci thought within himself, "He has twelve others at his back and I only one. If I capture him, the others will retake him. I will inveigle him into some secret spot and then try."

So flying and fighting by turns he led Sun Ce, an eager pursuer, down to the plain. Here Taishi Ci suddenly wheeled about and attacked. Again they exchanged half a hundred bouts, without result. Then Sun Ce made a fierce thrust, which his opponent evaded by gripping the spear under his arm, while he himself did the same with his opponent's spear. Neither was wounded but each exerting his utmost strength to pull the other out of the saddle they both came to the ground.

Their steeds galloped off they knew not whither, while the two men, each dropping his spear, began a hand to hand struggle. Soon their fighting robes were in tatters. Sun Ce gripped the short lance that Taishi Ci carried at his back, while Taishi Ci tore off Sun Ce's helmet. Sun Ce tried to stab with the short lance but Taishi Ci fended off the blow with the helmet as a shield.

Then arose a great shouting. Liu Yao had come up with a thousand soldiers. Sun Ce seemed now in sore straits. His twelve followers came up, and each combatant let go his hold. Taishi Ci quickly found another steed, seized a spear, and mounted. Sun Ce, whose horse had been caught by Cheng Pu, also mounted, and a confused battle began between the handful of men on one side and a whole thousand troops on the other.

I'm nearly done with Xiahou Dun, too The Remain Conscious talent and class Defense bonus suit him quite well.

 

[tetsujin28]

I know I'm veering off topic, but this has always bugged me. If Q sounds like CH, and written Chinese doesn't use Roman letters anyway, why not just write CH? Why? WHYYYYY?

Sorry. I don't really expect an answer. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Welcome to the wacky world of Wade-Giles vs. Pinyin. Qin used to be written Chin (or Ch'in), just as Beijing and Peiping are the same thing...but since Pinyin is now the Official system of tranliteration of China, we're stuck with Qin.

At least you're not an Assyriologist. We have to deal with things like gu, gu (with an accent), gu (with an accent grave), and gu(3), gu(4), &c. It's a real headache.

 

[tetsujin28]

Mandarin has just as much grammar as any other language. Inflections aren't the only means by which grammatical function is expressed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mandarin (and most other Eastern languages) is agglutinative, rather than inflected, yes?