Role-Playing vs. Alignment Conflict

[Calico_Jack73]

Here is a situation that has come up in my game last night that I could use a little guidance on.

I've got a player who is running a Lawful Good Dwarven Fighter who absolutely hates goblins. Last night the party came upon 4 goblin prisoners who had been chained to stakes in the ground obviously looking like they had been starving. He cheerfully states that he walks up to them and slaughters all four of them without a second thought. Here is the issue, he has made it abundantly clear that his Dwarf hates Goblins with a passion. However, he is playing a Lawful Good character and I don't believe that a Lawful Good character would just go up and slaughter his enemies if they were totally helpless and tied to a chain. Would you say that an Alignment violation has occurred or is this acceptable behavior for a Lawful Good character given his hatred of goblins?

 

[Gina]

I've got a player who is running a Lawful Good Dwarven Fighter who absolutely hates goblins. Last night the party came upon 4 goblin prisoners who had been chained to stakes in the ground obviously looking like they had been starving. He cheerfully states that he walks up to them and slaughters all four of them without a second thought. Here is the issue, he has made it abundantly clear that his Dwarf hates Goblins with a passion. However, he is playing a Lawful Good character and I don't believe that a Lawful Good character would just go up and slaughter his enemies if they were totally helpless and tied to a chain. Would you say that an Alignment violation has occurred or is this acceptable behavior for a Lawful Good character given his hatred of goblins?

I am admittedly not an expert on any of this, but since our group ran into a similar situation fairly recently, I figured I would give my .02!

It all depends on the DM and the world.

If goblins are always and without exception evil and can never be redeemed, then killing them is always ok under any circumstances.

If all creatures with intelligence have a chance to choose the path that they will take, then killing the helpless and starved goblins was wrong.

If the Dwarven fighter subscribes to any sort of code of honor, there is probably something in there against killing the helpless as well.

Of course, fighters are generally not known for restraint or brains, so it may have been a reflexive action based on his hatred of the creatures.

Of course, he also obviously didn't think of the ever present necessity of questioning prisoners as well......they might have had some valuable information!!!

In our group I was the druid, so my thought process was that goblins, like all creatures fill a place in the natural order. As intelligent creatures, they can choose their path in the world.

I was shot down and the two LG Holy Warriors killed a large number of goblin non-combatants as well as the warriors who surrendered and begged for mercy.

Gina

 

[Hand of Evil]

As a DM have you defined good and evil in your game? It is my soapbox.

Cold blooded murder is an evil act in my games BUT not when the creature is defined as EVIL. This is a cultural taboo I have built into my games, goblins are evil and no good and as such the killing of them does not taint alignment. AGAIN this is my rule as I define good and evil for I am DM!

General D&D play (nothing defined), I would say the player performed an evil act, helpless creature and hate (not good).

 

[Desdichado]

[sigh] That's why I underplay alignment in my game. I say it's absolutely fine, if that's the style of game you want. Why can't Lawful Good be militant and unforgiving?

 

[Psion]

I've got a player who is running a Lawful Good Dwarven Fighter who absolutely hates goblins. Last night the party came upon 4 goblin prisoners who had been chained to stakes in the ground obviously looking like they had been starving. He cheerfully states that he walks up to them and slaughters all four of them without a second thought. Here is the issue, he has made it abundantly clear that his Dwarf hates Goblins with a passion. However, he is playing a Lawful Good character and I don't believe that a Lawful Good character would just go up and slaughter his enemies if they were totally helpless and tied to a chain. Would you say that an Alignment violation has occurred or is this acceptable behavior for a Lawful Good character given his hatred of goblins?

Alignment is evaluative, not compulsory. If the character exhibits a behavior you think is out of character for LG characters, then change the alignment.

But you might ask yourself: what compelled the character? Did he feel at risk from the goblins? Or is it simply frothing hate? The latter seems like the root of evil to me.

 

[Psion]

[sigh] That's why I underplay alignment in my game. I say it's absolutely fine, if that's the style of game you want. Why can't Lawful Good be militant and unforgiving?

Why can't militant and unforgiving be not LG? Simply say "you're character is not LG."

It's okay to have characters who generally do the right things that have some character flaws that won't let them fairly earn the moniker "good." Really.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

But you might ask yourself: what compelled the character? Did he feel at risk from the goblins? Or is it simply frothing hate? The latter seems like the root of evil to me.

More like frothing hate. He used it to justify his actions.

 

[reiella]

A single flaw does not invalidate ones ability to be 'good'.

It is a stepping stone to fall, but hardly a means to break a LG alignment set.

Sidenote, the racial animonity between goblins and dwarves exists such that a dwarven fighter code of honor may require the slaughter of any goblin encountered.

And with that, I flee from the budding evil alignment discussion .

 

[kirinke]

LG does not mean militant and unforgiving. In fact, lawful good characters should show a degree of humility, a firm commitment to order and through that order, a firm commitment to good.
IE:
Hate is never a reason to kill to a LG character. If the LG dwarf killed helpless prisoners, that is an evil act, regardless of the prisoners alignment. Like the man said. Good done in the name of evil is still good and evil done in the name of good is still quite evil.Change is alignment to Chaotic neutral, cuz that was at best a chaotic act and certainly not good. Your call.

 

[Arnwyn]

A single flaw does not invalidate ones ability to be 'good'.

It is a stepping stone to fall, but hardly a means to break a LG alignment set.

I totally agree with this.

(However, alignment can only be determined by you and your players for your particular campaign. None of us can tell you otherwise - we can only give our opinions for how it works in our games.)

So, IMC - sure, it would be an "alignment violation"... but so what? One action doesn't define a character - everyone has their flaws. It's something that can only be determined fully over time. (Really, the player stated that his dwarf character's starting general demeanor is "Lawful Good"... however, the rigors of adventuring could cause his outlook to change, after some time.) Your campaign may be different.