Roleplaying a four Charisma...

[Lasher Dragon]

42

 

[Kemrain]

We should probably go back to discussing Warforged with a 4 Charisma...

- Kemrain the Kneebiter.

 

[Torm]

Wow something just struck me - is Wikipedia the earth version of the Hitchhikers Guide? Is it (and Google) become the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom

No. This is the Earth version of the guide - very similar to Wikipedia, except that more of the articles are obviously written with Douglas Adam's tone and irony in mind, and some were written by the man himself. Adams originally intended H2G2 to also sell a handheld appliance to access and edit the information using cellular networks, but abandoned the idea well before he died - the cell phone companies were making stuff that could do that plus a lot more already. After Adams died and the money for the original H2G2 site stopped flowing, the BBC volunteered to maintain it, and they've done a good job, except for more and more advertising creeping into the pages - which, if you think about it and know anything about the Guide, is very much in the spirit of the way the Acting Editor-in-Chiefs would handle things anyway, so long as they could put some of the ad revenue in their own pockets.

I'll bet Terraism would like us to stop hijacking now. Unless someone else suggests something brilliant, though, I do believe, as I said, that the nobody-notices approach is the way to go.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Mmmmm, while it can be debated a think a warforged in the shape of DEMONGORGON could be seen as having a four CHR, it also gives you some options as a DM and player. Why you ask would anyone forge a warforge so, to cause fear in their foe!

 

[Torm]

Mmmmm, while it can be debated a think a warforged in the shape of DEMONGORGON could be seen as having a four CHR, it also gives you some options as a DM and player. Why you ask would anyone forge a warforge so, to cause fear in their foe!

See, this is why I think that in 4e, Charm and Presence need to be divided out of Charisma: A character that looks like a demongorgon, as you say, would have a LOW Charisma when it comes to the Diplomacy skill - but for the exact same reason, should have a HIGH Charisma when it comes to the Intimidate skill!

The only way to have a low Charisma in 3e/3.5e represented properly is to have little Charm OR Presence, and that limits fulfillment of character concepts: What if I WANT to have a Barbarian who can intimidate his foes, shopkeepers, etc, but wouldn't have a prayer of negotiating a treaty betweeen two warring countries? Or a Princess who could talk a dracolich into handing over his phylactery, but couldn't intimidate a kobold? Or a Warforged with a body frame that has been painted by one of Eberron's most renowned artists (certainly a benefit to Charm, but to Presence? It might even DETRACT from Presence, as people are distracted from the person by the art)?.....

 

[TroyXavier]

I just don't think because you're ugly, you're necessarily more intimidating. However, presence would be an interesting stat to have.

 

[Torm]

I just don't think because you're ugly, you're necessarily more intimidating. However, presence would be an interesting stat to have.

Well, I mean, with both stats you could still build a character with low Charm and low Presence - but you shouldn't have to, is what I'm getting at.

 

[Whimsical]

"Have you ever known a person that whenever he entered the room it was like if two people left?" I remember this statement when an article for HERO Games was describing what it was like to have negative presence.

My mental iconic for low charisma is the Swingline stalpler guy from the movie Office Space.

Milton Waddams: [talking on the phone] And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...

Nina: Now Milton, don't be greedy, lets pass it along and make sure everyone gets a piece.
Milton Waddams: Yeah, but last time I didn't receive a piece.
Nina: Just pass.
[the cake passes and everybody but Milton gets a piece]
Milton Waddams: [whispering] I could set the building on fire.

Bill Lumbergh: Milt, we're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs into storage B. We have some new people coming in, and we need all the space we can get. So if you could go ahead and pack up your stuff and move it down there, that would be terrific, OK?
Milton Waddams: Excuse me, I believe you have my stapler...

Another good one would be Napoleon Dynamite.

Just imagine someone who when they talk to you says nothing of consequences and you have to continuously make Will saves to feign interest in what they are saying and not rudely just wander away or focus on something that is way more fascinating, such as a crack in the wall. Thats low Charisma.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Yeah, Charisma unfortunately is one of those stats that really covers too broad a spectrum for a characters charm and presence. However, if you separate the stats, you would not only create a total need to rework some of the mechanics in 3e D&D in terms of balance, but you'd also get even more ridiculous min/max combinations.

"My guy, he's got like super presence (cuz he's a sorceror), but then I made his charm his dump stat, so he's like this guy that everybody sees, and just can't help but listen to, or notice. But he's got absolutely no charm... so he's also repulsive at the same time?"

I wouldn't say presence and charm. Charm is too weak an idea in my opinion, and covers issues that are too direct. I'd say a person with a great presence doesn't even need charm... and if your charm is so low as to uncharm people... that would affect your presence. So charm just overcomplicates the issue, I think.

A 4 Cha Warforge... hrm, it's still a hard concept to think of. Still, Cha 4 is actually very low. There are creatures in the monster manual... pure worms or vegetation monsters, that have higher charisma than this warforge. So definitely, the "absence of self" is very fitting for such a low score.

Charisma as a base score works fine, because in all of the princess, barbarian, and other examples, there are skill subsets that you may dump your points into. Princess was just an example of diplomacy... but her intimidate would be, even with an 18, only a plus 4. Against a kobold, I seriously doubt that plus 4 is going very far. And... if you play the princess in-character, you would never attempt to intimidate anyway.

The barbarian is the opposite. Dump all points into intimidate. Penalty to diplomacy. House rule size bonuses or racial modifieres to the skill, much like they do with half-elves if you must.

Charisma as a score may not be the most efficient thing we've ever seen, but separating the score would only cause tons of issues and "personality splits". You'd have a ton of bipolar characters.

 

[Whimsical]

Except - those people can be kind of intimidating sometimes - a Cha based skill.

There's indimidating, and then there's repulsive. There's a difference.