Roleplaying in Middle Earth

[Desdichado]

Starting with the banning of teleportation spells, I'd expect.

Actually, I'd probably build a magic system from the ground up, to be skills and feats based. Available spells would probably closely mimic the witch spell-list in the DMG.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

PLEASE make such a system! We'd love to post it! I may think the D&D system can be used for LotR, but I'm quite receptive to new ways of doing it. I'm already intrigued by what we've seen of Decipher's system.

 

[Desdichado]

PLEASE make such a system! We'd love to post it! I may think the D&D system can be used for LotR, but I'm quite receptive to new ways of doing it. I'm already intrigued by what we've seen of Decipher's system.

It's actually been proto-typing (for want of a better word) for some time now. I posted an alternate mage class in House Rules a few weeks or so ago that is a direct result of my thinking of how to make magic that felt more like ME as I envision it.

I've got more ideas and some slightly different directions from where I ended up with that, though. Rest assured, I am working on something, and I'll be glad to submit it as an alternate!

However, it'll probably be best used in conjunction with my whole ME "system" and it may be "extra-class" related abilites, incorporating an entirely new mechanic (not too unlike Sanity in WoT or CoC.) Anyway, maybe I'll do two variants, one that's a little more traditional (mostly done already, actually) and one that is a bit more ground-up to fit my view of what ME magic is like.

 

[Apok]

You could probably get away with doing some major trimming of the existing Sor/Wiz spell list. Even Decipher's RPG uses defined spells, they are just more in line with the feel of the genre. If you want to totally rebuild the magic system, that's fine also, but using a skill/feat system would be alot more work.

My own personal take would be to take Decipher's concept and work with that as a base. First, get a functioning spell list that fits with the feel of ME. Then you can either a) keep the Vancian "fire and forget" system or b) allow a caster to cast the spells he/she knows as many times per day as they want, but each time they need to make a Fort save against a certain DC or suffer some kind of penalty. Decipher does this with Weariness levels. A d20 system may work like this; each time a caster fails his save, he becomes more fatigued suffering a cumulative -1 penalty to Saving Throws, Skill Checks, Attack Rolls and takes an ammount of subdual damage. These penalties remain until the wizard rests for a certain period of time. Of course, using such a system would require making DC's for the Fort saves. Just an idea, one of many.

 

[Desdichado]

You could probably get away with doing some major trimming of the existing Sor/Wiz spell list. Even Decipher's RPG uses defined spells, they are just more in line with the feel of the genre. If you want to totally rebuild the magic system, that's fine also, but using a skill/feat system would be alot more work.

My own personal take would be to take Decipher's concept and work with that as a base. First, get a functioning spell list that fits with the feel of ME. Then you can either a) keep the Vancian "fire and forget" system or b) allow a caster to cast the spells he/she knows as many times per day as they want, but each time they need to make a Fort save against a certain DC or suffer some kind of penalty. Decipher does this with Weariness levels. A d20 system may work like this; each time a caster fails his save, he becomes more fatigued suffering a cumulative -1 penalty to Saving Throws, Skill Checks, Attack Rolls and takes an ammount of subdual damage. These penalties remain until the wizard rests for a certain period of time. Of course, using such a system would require making DC's for the Fort saves. Just an idea, one of many.

Not as much work as you might think: the Star Wars RPG already has a "skills and feats spellcaster class" -- sorta. Adapting the force adept to fantasy and the D&D spells into "force powers" shouldn't be too terribly hard: I've already had one go at it, in fact, although I needed to edit and modify what I did to eliminate a few problems. Using the force causes subdual damage (VP damage) already too, so it's not too different from the high-level explanation of Decipher's system (or descriptions in the novels, either.)

My ground up approach is more conceptual, but involves the fact that magic either has one of two sources: strength of hroa or spirit (why elves and maiar are good at magic, humans rarely are) that allows you to manipulate matter in a way that Galadriel is slightly bemused to call magic, and tapping into the Morgoth corruption that is inherent in the entire earth.

The new mechanics would thus have to have a score (or ability) called spirit, or hroa or something like that, and the higher that is, the better chance you have of pulling off a spell. This score can come from various things (an initial roll based on race at chargen, potential increases as you level up, class-based increases for a loremaster/spellcaster class, etc.) or something like that.

Characters that don't have high hroa scores could still be "sorcerors" like the Mouth of Sauron, Queen Beruthiel, etc., but these are uniformly described by Tolkien as evil. This would use some kind of corruption mechanic, either modelled on WoT Insanity or Star Wars Corruption points.

Anyway, that's just high-level ideas for the "ground up" approach. The new class approach, a rather simple modification of my previous Mage class, which borrows ideas for casting spells from the Star Wars Force-user class, is 95% complete.

 

[Warchild]

Not as much work as you might think: the Star Wars RPG already has a "skills and feats spellcaster class" -- sorta. Adapting the force adept to fantasy and the D&D spells into "force powers" shouldn't be too terribly hard: I've already had one go at it, in fact, although I needed to edit and modify what I did to eliminate a few problems. Using the force causes subdual damage (VP damage) already too, so it's not too different from the high-level explanation of Decipher's system (or descriptions in the novels, either.)

My ground up approach is more conceptual, but involves the fact that magic either has one of two sources: strength of hroa or spirit (why elves and maiar are good at magic, humans rarely are) that allows you to manipulate matter in a way that Galadriel is slightly bemused to call magic, and tapping into the Morgoth corruption that is inherent in the entire earth.

The new mechanics would thus have to have a score (or ability) called spirit, or hroa or something like that, and the higher that is, the better chance you have of pulling off a spell. This score can come from various things (an initial roll based on race at chargen, potential increases as you level up, class-based increases for a loremaster/spellcaster class, etc.) or something like that.

Characters that don't have high hroa scores could still be "sorcerors" like the Mouth of Sauron, Queen Beruthiel, etc., but these are uniformly described by Tolkien as evil. This would use some kind of corruption mechanic, either modelled on WoT Insanity or Star Wars Corruption points.

Anyway, that's just high-level ideas for the "ground up" approach. The new class approach, a rather simple modification of my previous Mage class, which borrows ideas for casting spells from the Star Wars Force-user class, is 95% complete.

A friend and i worked on something very similiar to this for our ME conversion that ended up not being finished. I really think its the best of both worlds, D20 wise and keeps the feel of ME style magics. ME magic is kinda more like talents or powers that you learn to control. Core D&D more just doesn't feel or work right for ME D20, IMHO. I liked to see this class/system when you finish it, Joshua.

 

[Desdichado]

A friend and i worked on something very similiar to this for our ME conversion that ended up not being finished. I really think its the best of both worlds, D20 wise and keeps the feel of ME style magics. ME magic is kinda more like talents or powers that you learn to control. Core D&D more just doesn't feel or work right for ME D20, IMHO. I liked to see this class/system when you finish it, Joshua.

No prob. I plan on both posting it on the House Rules forum here, and then submitting it to ColonelHardisson and Co. after I get some feedback there.

 

[mmadsen]

Starting with the banning of teleportation spells, I'd expect.

It's amazing how much of the game's flavor is in the spell list. Imagine removing magical healing! Suddenly a high-level Fighter's last stand looks a whole lot more heroic...

 

[Numenorean]

Hi, I'm new here. Nice board.


Hmmm...how would I run a ME campaign and keep it within the flavor of the stories but also fun for the players. Well back in college we played a lot of ME in fact.

The first hurdle you need to address is whether or not you want to bend ME history for the benefit of your players or whether they would enjoy the campaign more by simply working within the confines of ME history and lore as set down by J.R.R. The reason I say this is because while some players may find it thrilling to have to recover the ring themselves, or do things that in the books the NPC heros of the ring wars did, other players may find as something of a fun-killer for them. It goes both ways. We chose to work within the confines of ME history. We were all Tolkien/M.E. junkies and the thought of us doing that stuff and changing history really kinda killed our fun of it. Call us boring, hey

We played mainly around the T.A. 1640 time period that most of the old ICE stuff was set. As long as you can get over the hump of your players will not be the allmighty most important heros of the setting, you can have a lot of fun. We did a lot. From raiding Mt. Gundabad, crossing the Misty Mountains, to various adventures with the wood elves in Mirkwood, to adventure in Ithilien and on the edge of Mordor. Several of us who took turns GM'ing were knowledgeable enough on ME to actually come up with compelling plots and adventure themes. In many instances we were able to really inject that heroic feel into the game.

The background material from ICE helped a lot. However ironically we didnt use their stuff verbatim much at all. Some of it is very questionable IMO. But the background material is priceless. We basically ran adventures geared at the most critical ME happenings during the 1640 era. Sure you cant have the PCs take the one ring to Mordor, but in 1640 you can have them be instrumental in saving Arthedain (this time around), or securing passage across the Misty Mtns for dwarf caravans, or for curbing a big goblin raid out of Gundabad, and we even ventured in to Dol Guldur and faced a Ringwraith (briefly I might add) at one point. Adunaphel is no chump ......

The bottom line is a successful ME campaign really depends on the ME knowledge and creativity of the GM. Because IMO to run a very good fantasy campaign set in a world that already has been written in books and is all hero'd out, you need to be good...Like one poster said how its hard to run a good campaign in a world already so established...I agree fully. Therein lies the challenge of gaming in ME.


1.) know your ME lore inside and out

2.) build adventure and campaign themes around critical events during the time period you chose to play.

With those two in mind theres a ton of very important side themes and events that your players can take part in and really make a difference in Middle Earth.


-Numenorean

 

[Numenorean]

Don't you think the mouth would have perished instantly when the one ring was destroyed and Sauron was banished and his will was shattered?

I got the idea that the massiveness of Barad Dur, The Mouth of Sauron living for ages, etc were all maintained and held together by Saurons powerful will....and mind you the ring before that had NEVER been destroyed...so even after he was cast down by Elendil and Gil-Galad his spirit and will remained....


Something to think about....but hey if you dont go by strict Tolkien canon then by all means have at it!!