Roles are so LIMITING!

I do not see how the defined roles of character classes have changed much from AD&D to 4e. The holy quartet of bashing / healing / area attack / stealth has not changed much.

If anything, Castles & Crusades has done more to break up the strict roles of D&D than any edition. The Siege Engine / Prime Attribute system means you get Clerics doing acrobatics and picking pockets without multiclassing.
 

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Kzach said:
If you're third or fourth on the damage meters, then your rogues, wizards, hunters and warlocks suck.

Either that, or I'm glad I stopped playing WoW when I did, 'cause nobody but rogues should be in the top two or three and ret pallies should be nowhere near there.

Or you're a Blood Elf Retribution Paladin with t6 gear, since Seal of Blood and Haste scales absurdly. As an additional point of clarification Mages in WoW are also never top DPS. But, since I can see that if this were the WoW forum, this is where it'd turn into a ten page thread where rogue players cry about their lack of raid utility. So, getting back to a game with a playerbase that isn't comprised of crybabies, let's talk about D&D.

3E's 'role expansion' is mostly illusory. The build options are certainly hugely diverse, but they're still within a reasonable framework. Sure, you can move toward the edges of that framework, and even dangle your feet off the side into someone else's territory....But you'll never be as wholly effective at ti.

Example 1: Character in the campaign I currently DM: A Ranger with the wildshape Ranger variant rules, as well as the Feats instead of Spell progression. He's still a striker type character (Especially since the player built him using skill tricks from Complete Scroundrel, making him incredibly mobile.)

Example 2: A warlock using Eldritch Glaive. Character becomes a melee character, but lacks the resilience of a 'defender' due to HP and generally lower armor (until he discovers the magnificent hax of mithral breastplates). Character is forced to rely on other warlock powers for defense, most of which provide evasiveness. (Fell Flight, Spider Climb, etc.)
 
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Kishin said:
So, getting back to a game with a playerbase that isn't comprised of crybabies, let's talk about D&D.

Making fun of other people/players/gamers who enjoy other games (such as WoW) is often looked down upon here at ENWorld.

In good old WoW fashion... /reported
 

Charwoman Gene said:
You must be new here.

Trust me, comparing the volume of tears that flow here or any other D&D site with those brought about on the WoW forums is like comparing a shallow tidal pool to the murky depths of the Marianas Trench. Reading the forums here at ENWorld literally restores my faith in humanity if I do it after I've read a bit of the WoW forums.

RigaMortus2 said:
Making fun of other people/players/gamers who enjoy other games (such as WoW) is often looked down upon here at ENWorld.

In good old WoW fashion... /reported

I too very much enjoy WoW (though I have recently stopped playing). I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade though, and I think most WoW players would agree. The above is very much self deprecating humor.
 
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Kishin said:
Trust me, comparing the volume of tears that flow here or any other D&D site with those brought about on the WoW forums is like comparing a shallow tidal pool to the murky depths of the Marianas Trench.

I actually do know. I agree. But hey I'm always up for the cheap laugh.

OMG THEYR GIVING CAZUALS FREE EPIXX!!!
 


Sojorn said:
You too huh?

Wonder how many WoW refugees 4th edition is actually going to absorb, I already know quite a few.


I take some umbrage at being called a WoW refugee. I've played D&D for about fourteen years now, thanks to a much older brother who gamed weekly with his friends in our house.

I basically stopped playing WoW once I started DMing another campaign: I'd rather use the time to plan and run my D&D sessions than raid consistently, as I derive more enjoyment from DMing than MMORPGing.

But I'm curious as to what you mean by 'absorb WoW refugees'. Are you referring to actual WoW players with limited tabletop experience coming to 4E? This intrigues me, because that's the first I've really heard of this apart from marketing type spiels.
 

Kishin said:
I take some umbrage at being called a WoW refugee. I've played D&D for about fourteen years now, thanks to a much older brother who gamed weekly with his friends in our house.

I basically stopped playing WoW once I started DMing another campaign: I'd rather use the time to plan and run my D&D sessions than raid consistently, as I derive more enjoyment from DMing than MMORPGing.

But I'm curious as to what you mean by 'absorb WoW refugees'. Are you referring to actual WoW players with limited tabletop experience coming to 4E? This intrigues me, because that's the first I've really heard of this apart from marketing type spiels.
Sorry, "refugee" was a poor word choice. Mostly because of the negative connotations.

Nearly all of my friends on WoW have some form of RP experience. Much like yourself, we all pretty much started quiting WoW when other things started seeming more interesting than raiding. WoW was our progression from tabletop/LARP/SP videogames. Now it's looking like there might be a shift among these friends back to 4th.

I can't speak for anyone that was drawn into WoW with no previous RP experience, as I'm not even sure if I knew anyone like that on WoW.

So all I meant was there seems to be a fair number of people I know that have gone "Silly raiding, forget this" and 4th edition is looking like an attractive alternative to these people for some reason. But this is the self-selecting group of people I talk to, so I can't rightly say how many of those players with limited tabletop experience will find 4th interesting.
 

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