OGL Roll for Combat reveals the terms of the "sweetheart deal" offered to 3pp


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I pointed out that my phrase was ‘don’t know you’re born’ you’re either British or have lived in Britain long enough to get the idiom.
Don't try and tell me what I do and don't know, that's just shenanigans on your part. You chose to be vague and obfuscate meaning behind obscure idiom.
If you’re gonna just lie then let’s stop here. I pointed out that my phrase was ‘don’t know you’re born’ you’re either British or have lived in Britain long enough to get the idiom. You know full well it doesn’t mean gullible, but rather unappreciative of how lucky you are.
I've never in my entire life, heard it used that way, and I'm a Cockney, mate. I've only ever heard it used to imply that people are wet behind the ears, usually in a rude and pushy way to try and get them to accept a bad deal. Maybe you shouldn't use dodgy idiom? I've never even heard it out of the mouth of anyone I wouldn't loosely term a "crook" or at best a wheeler-dealer before this (and I think I've heard it maybe three times ever? Four counting this I guess). I'm sure it means what you say somewhere, or in some age group, but not on my manor, or certainly not for people my age and below. How about that?

I can go around talking about how I'm brassic or whatever but I can't blame others if people on messageboards don't immediately get what I mean.
Repeating 25% becauze it’s a larger number while ignoring the reality reveals either a lack of business acumen
LOL, get your story straight.

You just claimed that you weren't saying people who thought WotC were offering a bad deal were stupid/born yesterday, and now you're calling me stupid for not going with the 15% number? Come on.
Companies taking over 1.5m every year just in D&D related PDFs and books? At that point it’s not a small D&D publisher, they don’t equate to 99% of those 15,000 publishers and designers.
Mate, the others weren't even offered the deal.

And again, if it was such a good deal, why did WotC immediately abandon it and drop to 0%? You're really giving me some "Bloke down Chapel Street market circa 1990 trying to sell my mum a broken vacuum cleaner" vibes right now.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Don't try and tell me what I do and don't know, that's just shenanigans on your part. You chose to be vague and obfuscate meaning behind obscure idiom.

I've never in my entire life, heard it used that way, and I'm a Cockney, mate. I've only ever heard it used to imply that people are wet behind the ears, usually in a rude and pushy way to try and get them to accept a bad deal. Maybe you shouldn't use dodgy idiom? I've never even heard it out of the mouth of anyone I wouldn't loosely term a "crook" or at best a wheeler-dealer before this (and I think I've heard it maybe three times ever? Four counting this I guess). I'm sure it means what you say somewhere, or in some age group, but not on my manor, or certainly not for people my age and below. How about that?

I can go around talking about how I'm brassic or whatever but I can't blame others if people on messageboards don't immediately get what I mean.

LOL, get your story straight.

You just claimed that you weren't saying people who thought WotC were offering a bad deal were stupid/born yesterday, and now you're calling me stupid for not going with the 15% number? Come on.

Mate, the others weren't even offered the deal.

And again, if it was such a good deal, why did WotC immediately abandon it and drop to 0%? You're really giving me some "Bloke down Chapel Street market circa 1990 trying to sell my mum a broken vacuum cleaner" vibes right now.
Calm down.
 

delericho

Legend
  • 6 articles about your product on D&D Beyond
  • 6 emails about your product to D&D Beyond users
  • 8 social media posts on D&D Beyond or D&D branded channels
  • 2 YouTube videos on D&D Beyond or D&D branded channels
  • 6 days of D&D Beyond home page placement
All of these are pretty good sweeteners. WotC must have been really desperate to see people signing away their rights.

(The 15% revenue was, and is, crazy of course - even as a reduction from 25% it's still awful.)
 

All of these are pretty good sweeteners. WotC must have been really desperate to see people signing away their rights.
Eh, some of them I'm skeptical on. Way I browse, the emails sent I'd consider a bit of a write off if other people are anything like me with email, alongside the social media posts and maaaybe the D&D Beyond home page placement. Doing a quick scan of D&D Beyond's youtube, seems their most recent stuff gets around the ~8k mark on average which, while certainly not bad (I am conciously aware my best video only has 14k videos), isn't world shattering, and how many of those translate to things being brought I couldn't say
 




Branduil

Hero
8 social media posts over 2 years is hilariously bad. Like, it literally costs nothing to make a social media post, you could automate an advertisement every single day if you wanted to. And they were offering 1 post per 3 months. LOL. LMAO even.
 



Parmandur

Book-Friend
You're presenting it as a fraction of the whole, but that's irrelevant and misleading.
Thisnis all academic, because WotC has radically backed off here. The mathematical formula for what is owed is a flat rate above the threshold, but for business purposes the real cost yo be calculated is that fraction of the whole that slides based on how much is made. And based on that, the numbers involved aren't unreasonable per se, WotC businessfolk probably assumed that any company doing $750,000 in sales probably would have their coats covered by that point and be in profit mode, because those businessfolk would themelselves set up a business (i.e., assuming that people running a $2 million a year publisher think like themselves, perhaps a flawed assumption). And on those terms, the benefit to advertising to 15 million active D&D customers is, really seriously, probably worth way more than the percentage of the whole in question.

But again, academic.
I pointed out that my phrase was ‘don’t know you’re born’ you’re either British or have lived in Britain long enough to get the idiom. You know full well it doesn’t mean gullible, but rather unappreciative of how lucky you are.
Now, I'm 'Merican and a native English speaker, albeit not ein Anglischer from the Big Island. I do have a degree in English literature and language, however, and I can say that I have never heard or read this idiom, nor can I parse it.
 
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Ashtagon

Adventurer
"Kids today. They don't know they've been born."


Using English claims it is international usage. However, Google Ngrams suggests it is primarily British English. Earliest written record seems to be about 100 years ago. To me, it feels like its more Midlands/Northern British than southern.

Most reference websites seem to suggest it means something along the lines of "you have a good life and don't realise it". It's something like "Oh my sweet summer child" in that regard, except a bit more disparaging, because it's normally used to refer to someone in the third person, rather than talking to someone in the second person.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

100% that gnome

Contracts were 2 years, and granted the following:
  • Pay 15% instead of 25% on revenue over 750k
  • 6 articles about your product on D&D Beyond
  • 6 emails about your product to D&D Beyond users
  • 8 social media posts on D&D Beyond or D&D branded channels
  • 2 YouTube videos on D&D Beyond or D&D branded channels
  • 6 days of D&D Beyond home page placement


This was the carrot to the OGL 1.1 stick. Notably Wizards disclosed that they have 15 million registered users on D&D Beyond.
These are some pretty weak-sauce perks.
 
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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
That is exactly what those calculations show. A threshold that has scaling % of royalties from 0% to 7.5% up to $1.5m. Repeating 25% becauze it’s a larger number while ignoring the reality reveals either a lack of business acumen or you ideological opposition to this, in which case why are you bothering talking to people about the reality on the ground. Companies taking over 1.5m every year just in D&D related PDFs and books? At that point it’s not a small D&D publisher, they don’t equate to 99% of those 15,000 publishers and designers.

If you’re gonna just lie then let’s stop here. I pointed out that my phrase was ‘don’t know you’re born’ you’re either British or have lived in Britain long enough to get the idiom. You know full well it doesn’t mean gullible, but rather unappreciative of how lucky you are.
You're just plain wrong on this. I recently posted how, but you ignored that post.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
You're just plain wrong on this. I recently posted how, but you ignored that post.
I think the reason it didn't work was that the people at WotC in charge of figuring out a number didn't have an accurate understanding of how seat-of-the-pants the third party D&D industry is.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
"Kids today. They don't know they've been born."


Using English claims it is international usage. However, Google Ngrams suggests it is primarily British English. Earliest written record seems to be about 100 years ago. To me, it feels like its more Midlands/Northern British than southern.

Most reference websites seem to suggest it means something along the lines of "you have a good life and don't realise it". It's something like "Oh my sweet summer child" in that regard, except a bit more disparaging, because it's normally used to refer to someone in the third person, rather than talking to someone in the second person.
Oh, wow, interesting. Without that context, honestly I couldn't even parse the idiom as making any sense on a syntactical level.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think the reason it didn't work was that the people at WotC in charge of figuring out a number didn't have an accurate understanding of how seat-of-the-pants the third party D&D industry is.
I don't believe that at all. They have those numbers at their fingertips. They are as likely to be out of touch about those numbers as they are about what players and DMs want out of the game. There's no way in hell that they haven't had long talks with some people who make those products or have employees who have done it themselves.
 



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