renau1g
First Post
& 4e as well
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Rouge sneak attack with any weapon
- Thread starter Uber Dungeon
- Start date
& 4e as well
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
Indeed. While I could put out some serious damage if all my hits connected, my rogue was horribly frail. (shudder)
Brad
Depends. In Essentials a.k.a. 4.5 they changed it (again). It may well be changed for 'standard' 4e, as well, with one of the forthcoming rules updates...
dagger
Adventurer
Glass Cannon!!
DogBackward
First Post
Actually, Rogues are d8 now (because of that medium BAB), and Weapon Finesse is no longer a +1 BAB feat. So a Human Rogue 1 could be a TWF'er with Finesse, and kick ass pretty well.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
This is exactly the build that the rogue in my game is using.
It's not so much a glass cannon (which is something of a factor), as it is high damage over low consistency, vs less damage that's very consistent.
All 4 martial classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin and Ranger) have bonuses to hit over and above their BAB and circumstances (like flanking, etc).
So not only are they getting an eventual 5 points higher by virtue of BAB alone (and earlier/more extra attacks), they also have things like Rage, Smite, Favored Enemy, and Weapon Training all giving additional bonuses to hit and damage.
It might sound daunting to see a Rogue have an extra ~35 damage per attack (10d6), which with TWF at high levels can become something like 210 damage (6 attacks).
However, a Fighter at 20th level has 10 points higher for attack. This means his ~10 bonus damage per attack (plus extra attack) applies more often, and without requiring things like flanking: every single attack is guaranteed this damage, and will land 50% more often than the rogue (10 points on a d20 roll).
The Rogue will rightly tear up anyone weak in AC that lets him get into a position for a full attack while flanking. That's quite a list of conditions though. The Fighter will do more consistent damage, even against the higher ACs, all the time.
The same applies to a Paladin fighting an evil target, a Barbarian using some of his rage rounds, and a Ranger fighting his favored enemy.
Sneak Attack barely lets Rogues hold their own in combat with the "big guys", and emphasizes the indirect fighting (sneaking, surprise attacks, instead of toe-to-toe).
After a decade of playing it this way, all experience has told me (and many others, you'll find) that the Rogue isn't breaking the game by doing sneak attack more than once a round.
Balance is one thing though. If you dislike the martial slant of the Rogue, and are looking for a more skill-based character, you could remove sneak attack damage at some intervals (or completely!) to give them more talents. With the APG, there's a lot of nice talents a rogue could want (45 normal talents and 20 advance, between both books), to the point that even having 20 choices would still leave a Rogue choosey.
All 4 martial classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin and Ranger) have bonuses to hit over and above their BAB and circumstances (like flanking, etc).
So not only are they getting an eventual 5 points higher by virtue of BAB alone (and earlier/more extra attacks), they also have things like Rage, Smite, Favored Enemy, and Weapon Training all giving additional bonuses to hit and damage.
It might sound daunting to see a Rogue have an extra ~35 damage per attack (10d6), which with TWF at high levels can become something like 210 damage (6 attacks).
However, a Fighter at 20th level has 10 points higher for attack. This means his ~10 bonus damage per attack (plus extra attack) applies more often, and without requiring things like flanking: every single attack is guaranteed this damage, and will land 50% more often than the rogue (10 points on a d20 roll).
The Rogue will rightly tear up anyone weak in AC that lets him get into a position for a full attack while flanking. That's quite a list of conditions though. The Fighter will do more consistent damage, even against the higher ACs, all the time.
The same applies to a Paladin fighting an evil target, a Barbarian using some of his rage rounds, and a Ranger fighting his favored enemy.
Sneak Attack barely lets Rogues hold their own in combat with the "big guys", and emphasizes the indirect fighting (sneaking, surprise attacks, instead of toe-to-toe).
After a decade of playing it this way, all experience has told me (and many others, you'll find) that the Rogue isn't breaking the game by doing sneak attack more than once a round.
Balance is one thing though. If you dislike the martial slant of the Rogue, and are looking for a more skill-based character, you could remove sneak attack damage at some intervals (or completely!) to give them more talents. With the APG, there's a lot of nice talents a rogue could want (45 normal talents and 20 advance, between both books), to the point that even having 20 choices would still leave a Rogue choosey.
Particle_Man
Explorer
Usually the rogue gets sneak attack damage on every hit, but there are some corner cases where this doesn't happen. With the feat "manyshot" you get multiple attacks but only get sneak attack on the first (assuming you catch the opponent with their dex bonus down).
Also invisibility gets broken if you attack, so if a rogue is using invisibility to get sneak attack goodness, then they lose that goodness after their first attack. That is why greater invisibility is more useful to the rogue.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Yeah; it seems to be that most cases of performing a sneak attack from catching someone flat-footed last for one attack. Whereas sneak attacking while flanking lasts until the targeted character isn't flanked anymore.
