D&D 3E/3.5 Rough module conversions, 3e EL to 4e?
- Thread starter Voadam
- Start date
Oompa
First Post
Hmmm..
Just replace the monsters in the 3.X adventure with monsters out of the 4th edition (or a monster that is similar), but do keep in mind the level of the players.
So if the new adventure should bring you one level higher because you want that and the original adventure had about 8 encounters, just make 2 encounters a bit harder for more xp..
It think you really have to give some more info (how many encounters, level progression?)
Just replace the monsters in the 3.X adventure with monsters out of the 4th edition (or a monster that is similar), but do keep in mind the level of the players.
So if the new adventure should bring you one level higher because you want that and the original adventure had about 8 encounters, just make 2 encounters a bit harder for more xp..
It think you really have to give some more info (how many encounters, level progression?)
the Jester
Legend
Er... the real question, I think, is what level party are you running through it?
Then tailor to that.
If for instance you want to run an older module for 9th level pcs in 4e, also for 9th level pcs, then you just need to tweak the monster composition of the encounters to make sure they are in the right range for a 9th level party in 4e. Given that a lot of monsters kind of shifted levels, you need to watch this, but it's easy enough to handle with a few minutes prep (VERY few).
Two examples from the sample encounters in Lords of Madness:
Pg. 103, area 2- an EL 8 encounter with a neogi, an umber hulk, 3 orc warrior 1s and 3 goblin warrior 1s.
If I was rewriting this for 8th level pcs, I'd start by setting my xp budget at approx. 1750. I would start with the following:
1 neogi slaver (MM2 166; level 10 controller leader) *worth xp 500
1 umber hulk (MM 256; level 12 elite soldier) *worth 1400 xp
Already over xp budget for a level 8 encounter... but not quite to level 9 (we're at 1900 xp, level 9 would be 2000 xp). So for the orc and goblin minions (aha) we'll add:
2 orc drudges (MM 203; level 4 minions) *worth 88 xp.
Total xp = 1988. Compared to the original encounter we're short four lackeys. If you don't mind changing the EL by 1, to 9, you can add four more drudges (or 1 drudge and build a 4th level goblin minion) and have a level 9, xp 2164 encounter. Perfect.
My other example:
Page 118, area 4- In LoM we have an encounter with a grell necrophilosopher and 3 gnoll skeletons at EL 8. Since grell got a significant level up in 4e, this might be harder. Let's see.
Again, xp budget is ideally 1750 to 1999. We'll use:
1 grell philosopher (MM 144; level 11 elite controller) *worth 1200 xp
3 boneshard skeletons (MM 235; level 5 brutes) *worth 600 xp
Heck, it works pretty much straight across. In both of these encounters we're still in a pretty reasonable level range (level -4 minion to level +3 elite) and I think both would be fun, exciting encounters. And all I did was check the numbers.
So, I'd say it's pretty easy, especially if you're willing to up- and down-level and custom build monsters.
Then tailor to that.
If for instance you want to run an older module for 9th level pcs in 4e, also for 9th level pcs, then you just need to tweak the monster composition of the encounters to make sure they are in the right range for a 9th level party in 4e. Given that a lot of monsters kind of shifted levels, you need to watch this, but it's easy enough to handle with a few minutes prep (VERY few).
Two examples from the sample encounters in Lords of Madness:
Pg. 103, area 2- an EL 8 encounter with a neogi, an umber hulk, 3 orc warrior 1s and 3 goblin warrior 1s.
If I was rewriting this for 8th level pcs, I'd start by setting my xp budget at approx. 1750. I would start with the following:
1 neogi slaver (MM2 166; level 10 controller leader) *worth xp 500
1 umber hulk (MM 256; level 12 elite soldier) *worth 1400 xp
Already over xp budget for a level 8 encounter... but not quite to level 9 (we're at 1900 xp, level 9 would be 2000 xp). So for the orc and goblin minions (aha) we'll add:
2 orc drudges (MM 203; level 4 minions) *worth 88 xp.
Total xp = 1988. Compared to the original encounter we're short four lackeys. If you don't mind changing the EL by 1, to 9, you can add four more drudges (or 1 drudge and build a 4th level goblin minion) and have a level 9, xp 2164 encounter. Perfect.
My other example:
Page 118, area 4- In LoM we have an encounter with a grell necrophilosopher and 3 gnoll skeletons at EL 8. Since grell got a significant level up in 4e, this might be harder. Let's see.
Again, xp budget is ideally 1750 to 1999. We'll use:
1 grell philosopher (MM 144; level 11 elite controller) *worth 1200 xp
3 boneshard skeletons (MM 235; level 5 brutes) *worth 600 xp
Heck, it works pretty much straight across. In both of these encounters we're still in a pretty reasonable level range (level -4 minion to level +3 elite) and I think both would be fun, exciting encounters. And all I did was check the numbers.
So, I'd say it's pretty easy, especially if you're willing to up- and down-level and custom build monsters.
You don't. Your better off replacing all the encounters with something else or creating new monster stat blocks.
It's less work than you might think, btw.
Maybe if you would post the module in question and/or the monsters it uses, we could offer some concrete suggestions.
Voadam
Legend
It is a one shot one night game, I don't care how much xp they actually earn, I care about the pacing of the challenges. It is a 1st level short module with encounters ranging from EL 1-4. I will be replacing each combat encounter with a group of 4e monsters and I'm expecting to change numbers of monsters and types and monster levels as appropriate for 4e. I've got an MM for base stats and a DMG for the adjustment guidelines when changing monster levels.
Is a party level EL encounter in 3e about the same challenge as a party level encounter in 4e or do they use significantly different baselines?
When the module has an EL 1 group of kobolds in 3e should I use a level 1 encounter group of kobolds in 4e to get roughly the same combat challenge?
Is a party level EL encounter in 3e about the same challenge as a party level encounter in 4e or do they use significantly different baselines?
When the module has an EL 1 group of kobolds in 3e should I use a level 1 encounter group of kobolds in 4e to get roughly the same combat challenge?
Starfox
Hero
At least at lower levels, a 4E party can take on less challenge (level-wise) than a 3E party. A level 1 4E party probably has more trouble with a level 4 encounter than a 3E party has with a EL 4 encounter. But the difference is not huge, and might vary depending on how the campaign is set up. I think using EL (3E) = Encounter level (4E) will work out.
jhilahd
Explorer
Here's an example of the Runelord's Adventure Path converted.
The Rusty Dragon
I agree with much of what has been said.
If it looks like your fight has too many hard monsters, adjust. Easy peasy. Either levels, or roles.
Minions make a great addition.
You have a barracks and an armory full of about 20-30 orcs(say 4-5 encounters in 3.X) make about 5-8 of them specific types and the rest minions. Bring them into the fight in waves. Make it like an old kung fu movies where you have a ton of mooks just waiting to get into the fight.
Or reduce the number of enemies, and adjust your opponents level/type and spice up your surroundings with interesting terrain.
I've been running alot of 1e-2e modules/adventures to 4e. And basically adjust to their 4e equivalent OR level equivalent.
Good luck and have fun with it.
The Rusty Dragon
I agree with much of what has been said.
If it looks like your fight has too many hard monsters, adjust. Easy peasy. Either levels, or roles.
Minions make a great addition.
You have a barracks and an armory full of about 20-30 orcs(say 4-5 encounters in 3.X) make about 5-8 of them specific types and the rest minions. Bring them into the fight in waves. Make it like an old kung fu movies where you have a ton of mooks just waiting to get into the fight.
Or reduce the number of enemies, and adjust your opponents level/type and spice up your surroundings with interesting terrain.
I've been running alot of 1e-2e modules/adventures to 4e. And basically adjust to their 4e equivalent OR level equivalent.
Good luck and have fun with it.
