RPG Illegal File Sharing Hurts the Hobby

[PetriWessman]

Really, I'm not!

So, I take exception to the cncept of someone happily committing illegal acts because their "ethics" allow them to - as a concept. I recognise that there are exceptions, and even cases where such acts must or should be taken, but the pilfering of leisure goods is not one of those cases.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

In my worldview, there are a lot of things that are illegal but are "ok" as far as my sense of personal ethics is concerned.

There are also a lot of things that are totally legal, but totally unethical to me.

The legal system has its own machinery and rules, and again I'm not saying that doing something illegal is "ok" as far as the law is concerned -- that would be silly. But to me, illegal does not always equate unethical. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Usually it does, of course, since a large body of law has been formed on the basis of what the average person feels to be "right". But when we come to more modern things like copyright law and IP ownership, personal ethics and legality sometimes go in totally separate directions. In *my* view. Yours is expected to be different.

 

[Krypter]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
In my worldview, there are a lot of things that are illegal but are "ok" as far as my sense of personal ethics is concerned.
There are also a lot of things that are totally legal, but totally unethical to me.

Lawful Good vs. Chaotic Good. FIGHT!



(I would agree with Petri here, but then I've always come up as Chaotic Good myself in all those personality tests.)

 

[Jim Hague]

So we have two facts:

1) their sales have been dropping (by some unknown amount)
2) their books can be found on p2p networks pretty soon after they are released

There could very well be a correlation. But there might very well not be. At this point I could link to the lovely "pirate population vs. average global temperature" graph someone drew up on rpg.net -- this *might* be just as meaningless. I'm not saying there isn't a correlation, I'm just saying you have no real data to back up your claim of one. You can make pretty much any claim you want based on a bunch of data (I should know, my wife is a researches and does a lot of statistics work, and she has a lot of opinions on the subject ).

Given the qulity of data available on RPG.Net most days, I'd find anything off it suspect. But yes. As for the claims - I'm not making them. The folks with the actual sales figures are, and I believe them. They're not saying 'OMFG, we're dooooomed!', they're saying that, being small companies, pirated PDFs hurt enough for them to feel the pinch.

Agreed. But just as often, if not more, they will buy.

Having worked a little for fulfillment, sales and marketing...no. If they can get it cheaper, they will, on average, and even moreso if free. That's part and parcel of the thinking behind deals you see at the store that push soda at 3/$10 - percieved value for dollar. Even if something's crap, people will, more often than not, grab it if it's free. Throw in the pseudo-anonymity of the internet, and they get their juice from the naughty thrill of stealing, too.

 

[Morrus]

It is, IMHO, foolish and irresponsible to accept at face value that what the laws say are wrong must therefore also be ethically wrong.

I agree. And fortunately for both of us, nobody has said that! We're a lucky pair!

 

[Pramas]

I'm not going to press them for sales figures, but when copies of MnM 2e started appearing on filesharing networks 2 days after the book went on sale, I don't think that's a good thing. It's a sad fact that people often don't buy when they can get something for free.

Indeed. And in fact we got a report directly from a retailer who told us several of his customers were discussing how they were planning to buy M&M2 until they downloaded a pirated copy for free. They were very pleased with themselves and what's worse they were gloating in front of the retailer who would have made those sales. Now not every pirate is dumb enough to talk about it in their FLGS, but those of you who think this isn't a problem for the RPG industry are sadly mistaken.

 

[Numion]

That's not true. Your ethics don't override society's. It's not a legal defence to a crime to say "Oh, but it is in accordance to my personal ethics", and it shouldn't be - otherwise we have no law. The concept of law is based on the idea that society imposes its ethics on every indivdual member of that society, whether they agree with it or not.

Ethics are not the same as law. For example where I live it is legal to download stuff from P2P networks. It doesn't make it ethical. Depending on the country the individuals ethics do override the society's, since the activity is legal, and every individual has to decide for himself whether to participate.

 

[Psionicist]

I would like to add the following:

The large companies don't care, at all, about copyright. They only care about themselves and their profits.

I think this is disturbing. Companies like Disney and Sony don't "passionately belive in the niceness of the geneve convention etc etc", they see copyright as a mean to make more money. This has, as already written by some members, basically destroyed copyright as we know it and as was intended hundreds of years ago

Take for instance Sony BMG, Sonys record label. Do these guys care about copyright infringment? Yes, you probably think. They have been suing so many people (under the RIAA-name) they must care about copyright and the evilness of copyright infringement!

Well.. no. They don't care about copyright. In fact, Sony BMG themselves often break copyright law. There's a thread in the off-topic forum about a new copy protection mechanism Sony uses. This program has code "stolen" (to use your own term) from open source projects. It violates the law, and it violates the license.

So, if Sony themselves don't respect copyright law, why should I respect theirs? In fact, why should I respect copyright law these guys have bought to make more money?

----

Where I'm getting at is this: The really large companies have not only destroyed copyright law with lobbying, they have also completely destroyed (in my eyes) the opinions of those who create stuff, such as RPG books, and passionately belive in, and actually follow, copyright. I am probably not alone thinking this.

 

[Numion]

I would like to add the following:

The large companies don't care, at all, about copyright. They only care about themselves and their profits.

Yep. It'll be the day when Mickey Mouse enters the public domain .. Disney will never let it happen.

Why is it that patents last only a fraction of what copyrights do? Why can't you get fat off a patent for the rest of your life, but can from a book?

 

[Cergorach]

1.) I really doubt that there's an owner of a game company that'll say "sure it's all right to illegally copy my books and distribute them to the entire world" because the chance that they'll sell enough gaming books after that to make a living is as good as zero.
2.) That hardly makes an owner of a game company or anyone affiliated with the sale of copyrighted material unbiased.
3.) On the other hand, 'pirates' also have a vested interest in scetching their 'trade' as 'undamaging' as possible to the rest of the world.
4.) No one is wearing a pin on their forehead that reads wether one falls in the first or in the second group, so everyone's 'facts' should be taken with a grain of salt.
5.) Personally i think folks should ask themselves wether they are comfortable with 'pirating', i also think that people should take responsibility for their actions and realise that what they are doing is illegal and society could (and given the oppertunity would) punish you for breaking that societies rules.
6.) I practicly detest copyright, it's a neccessary evil (for the moment), but i would prefer other forms of compensation. Why is my time more valuable then someone who has been less fortunate then myself? Why should i keep getting money for something i stopped working on? (Yeah i don't like kapitalism)

 

[Dr. Harry]

It's a sad fact that people often don't buy when they can get something for free.

Agreed. But just as often, if not more, they will buy.

Where do get this idea? Consider the thread that was last updated a couple of weeks ago on how many bookstores have moved gaming books to behind the counter because the theft of gaming books are so common. If your logic is correct, it seems that those people who steal books will, "just as often, if not more" come back and pay for them later.

The first thing that my brother-in-law was warned about when he got into MtG was that there were enough thieves out there that he had to watch his cards every minute, or someone would rip him off. Would those people come back later to trade fairly once they found the card useful to them?

If there is enough of a population in the overall gaming population (and it doesn't have to be much) that will happily steal paper product, what leads you to believe that they will not keep e-product? (Beyond a couple of anecdotal claims that this or that person engages in theft .. but then always pays for it.)