RPG Piracy

[MEG Hal]

The reason it will never be stopped is why this dicsussion keeps getting heated up:

Because some people do not feel it is illegal and wrong so they won't stop. You will never be able to convince certain people that stealing $100 of RPG material is equal to a $100k car even though the company you are taking the $100 books from loose a lot more % to profit then the car instance. It will happen because people justify it all the time. I hear I am innocent, or why don't you go get people who do worse crimes instaed of me, and my reply is 'cause you got caught and it is my job.

People who d/l items illegally puts my publishing job in jeopardy and it is not right no matter what you say or feel. So people will do what they want but hopefully we will find you and take care of it, but I doubt it.

 

[Ysgarran]

OK, Henry.

We are small and could not possible track down all of the illegal downloads, and if companies like WoTC can't do it we can't either, so when we are notified we will try and do something but it will never be stopped until the people who d/l stop and there is no need.

This is getting off topic just a touch but would you pay money for a bot that looked for illegal copies? I suppose much depends on how successfull it was at finding illegal copies.

I know that the large companies (especially those involved in music and movie industry) are working on just such a tool but they have lots of money to spend on such a tool. I wonder if it would be possible to create a program for the lower end of the spectrum.

later,
Ysgarran.

 

[MEG Hal]

This is getting off topic just a touch but would you pay money for a bot that looked for illegal copies? I suppose much depends on how successfull it was at finding illegal copies.

I know that the large companies (especially those involved in music and movie industry) are working on just such a tool but they have lots of money to spend on such a tool. I wonder if it would be possible to create a program for the lower end of the spectrum.

later,
Ysgarran.

Good question, on a serious note depending on the cost we probably could not afford it, but maybe a host of d20 companies would buy it as a group and use if for all of the "paying" companies.

That sounds cool. I would look into it.

 

[RSKennan]

RE: Stopping piracy

Would it be possible to hire a single white hat as an industry? Each publisher who wanted to take part could contribute a part of this man or woman's salary corresponding to their market share. It would take some organization, but he would be devoted to reporting this activity to ISPs, and local governments where feasible.

Even so, I think it's so hard to stop because it's so wide-spread. It only takes one copy to propagate.

Are there any encryption or printing possibilities (such as reflective page borders or embossing) that will make the pirate's job harder? Any alternatives to PDFs that are not so "portable" as it were? It doesn't seem like there are any easy answers to this dilemma.

Regarding my above point of reflective borders on pages, I don't know much about scanners, but old photocopiers were damaged if you tried to copy a reflective surface if I recall correctly. Again this is conjecture, but it could even take the form of silica mixed with the pulp in the paper making process, that would produce flares when intensely lit. It's probably something for the larger publishing industry as a whole to deal with, since these options seem expensive, if they would work at all.

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: RPG Piracy

It's really not that easy. For example, if someone peeked in on my home computer they'd find a ton of mp3's they could question. I've ripped most of my CD collection. At present this is legal since I own the CD's and ripping the CD's for listening myself is considered Fair Use by the law.

Actually, if you are in the U.S., technically ripping CDs for personal listening purposes is not covered by Fair Use, and is technically a violation of copyright laws. Copying material onto audio tapes is also not Fair Use, but is covered by the Audio Home Recording Act. Unless that act has been amended recently, it does not cover transforming material into mp3 format (or any other computer based electronic format).

 

[Zappo]

I dunno about the USA, but where I live you can't just peek into someone's computer and then sue him if you find files with your copyrighted material.

Apart from the fact that it could fall under Fair Use, they are illegally obtained proof, which cannot be used in court. So you effectively don't have anything on your hands AND can and will be sued in turn for illegally breaking into my computer. You can get a warrant to get usable proof afterwards, but that won't stop you from getting sued for hacking.

It's quite a catch-22, designed to protect privacy: you can get a warrant to search my computer if you suspect that I have warez, but if you don't search my computer beforehand you can't suspect that I have warez.

 

[MEG Hal]

Re: RE: Stopping piracy

Would it be possible to hire a single white hat as an industry? Each publisher who wanted to take part could contribute a part of this man or woman's salary corresponding to their market share. It would take some organization, but he would be devoted to reporting this activity to ISPs, and local governments where feasible.

Even so, I think it's so hard to stop because it's so wide-spread. It only takes one copy to propagate.

Are there any encryption or printing possibilities (such as reflective page borders or embossing) that will make the pirate's job harder? Any alternatives to PDFs that are not so "portable" as it were? It doesn't seem like there are any easy answers to this dilemma.

Regarding my above point of reflective borders on pages, I don't know much about scanners, but old photocopiers were damaged if you tried to copy a reflective surface if I recall correctly. Again this is conjecture, but it could even take the form of silica mixed with the pulp in the paper making process, that would produce flares when intensely lit. It's probably something for the larger publishing industry as a whole to deal with, since these options seem expensive, if they would work at all.

Maybe on point 1, but even so I do not know how effective it will be and/or worth the money.

To the last point, I would not want to do that because of the "good" people who are making copies as player handouts etc...I would hate to hear we ruined their machine.

Good example, a fan asked me about making a Players Guide to Bluffside, all I asked is can I see ut when he was done, I just got it and was so impressed that we are reworking it a bit and we will be having it available for d/l. So we are trying to help the fans but if sales decrease we will have less time/money to do some of the cool things we want to do. It is a circle but if someone jumps off the circle, it will never come completely around and be doomed to fail.

 

[drothgery]

One thing that rather annoys me is that a lot of the piracy these days is a side effect of technology that's quite useful for legitimate means. Before relatively inexpensive and easily available broadband and CD writers, large-scale piracy was a much smaller concern.

Pirating music before CD writers wasn't as common because music quality degraded rapidly with cosumer-grade double tape recorders.

Copying software that came on ten or twenty flopies was too tedious to pirate, and that was pretty common just before CD readers started showing up everywhere.

Before broadband was relatively common, someone in a local area had to get a legit copy to share with his friends.

All of which means that while it was possible to ignore some level casual copying ten or twenty years ago, I don't think it is anymore. Which is why I expect someone in the movie, music, or software industry (probably Microsoft, as they've thought the most about the problem, and are willing to try a few things until they come up with something that works) to come up with a DRM system that's very difficult to crack and lets most people do what they think they should be able to do with legal copies.

 

[jasper]

Ok look at costs. Coming out the ether say $10 per hour for the searcher and $100 for first bad boy letter.
Initial cost $110 plus benefits so let call $200.
Add another $100 for the second.
Add another $100 for the third and then you going to local cops in Roland town. To have Roland shut down his free download T$R library . This assumes his IPO is still doing business with him. So $400 is spend and Roland is roll on floor laughing.
How many more months before the case comes up. Assuming Roland does not care and not taking the site down.
Now Wizard has pay for filing fees, transportation, (or hiring Larry Lawyer in Roland land to take the case) etc.
So call it cheap Roland got the hanging judge Henry who also role plays also. Fines Roland the minimum and slaps on his wrist because it is Roland’s first offensive. So say $1000 to get rid Roland and since he has no money, Wotc can’t debit his wages.

Roland smirks and complains on all the BB how icky mean and nasty Wotc is. Which causes Jasper, Pirate cat, Dragon girl to set up similar sites. The cycle begins again.

So what as a community can we do. Do what I did last year. Some one pointed out that a person overseas had the 2 ed Monster Manual on his site. I emailed Wotc and his server. With in 3 days site went bye bye. How did that person repost the site on another server. Maybe but I didn’t find it.

And certain goobers calling hired help goobers and other not nice things are generally goobers themselves.

So piracy cost a company money. How much in product and how much in prevention is up to the company.

The only thief I would let go is a man stealing food for his family.

 

[KnowTheToe]

So what as a community can we do. Do what I did last year. Some one pointed out that a person overseas had the 2 ed Monster Manual on his site. I emailed Wotc and his server. With in 3 days site went bye bye. How did that person repost the site on another server. Maybe but I didn’t find it.

Yep, that is all we can do.